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Not every Christian shares the same beliefs as other Christians.
But then again, not all atheists share the same beliefs about their own atheism, either.
But we atheists don't have a massive book we're supposed to be following under penalty of damnation.
But we atheists don't have a massive book we're supposed to be following under penalty of damnation.
LOL! That's right.
Instead of following ONE book, you have many buildings FILLED with books about the laws you're supposed to be following, and the penalties of "damnation" if you don't.
Instead of following ONE book, you have many buildings FILLED with books about the laws you're supposed to be following, and the penalties of "damnation" if you don't.
Funny how my post was deleted yet you still got to make a reply to it.
Seems some cannot even make a genuine observation without be accused of whining.
It's not "funny", it's a matter of not having seen the response. As you are well aware since you've been on this forum long enough, the correct thing to do would have been to send a DM to mensaguy or me that your deleted post had been quoted.
Instead, since you continue to whine about moderation in the public forum, instead of just the deletion note, I'll now put it here for all to see and use you as the poster boy for the reminder that the Forum Rules to which you agreed to abide when you signed up for this forum say do not complain about moderation:
"Discussing moderator actions (deleting/moving/editing threads or posts) is not allowed in the public forums. General concerns should be addressed in About the Forum. Any particular issues will only be dealt with in Direct Messages sent to a local moderator. All complaints should be sent via DM to the senior moderators, Yac or Marka."
For those folks who were not here at the time: Several Universalism threads were combined into one because there were so many started on the same subject that the first page had four or five of them. There was no reason for that to continue. With "evergreen" topics that are brought up again and again, it makes sense to keep them in one thread instead of having multiple threads talking about the same thing at the same time.
Well, what the reality DOES tell us is that people are unique, and people's POV's differ.
If 10 people look at the exact same picture, and are then asked to write down what they see, even while looking at it, you won't get the exact same description from any of them.
But that doesn't mean that any of them are "lying" or that their descriptions are "unreliable".
Having 10 different descriptions of something doesn't mean that "something" doesn't exist.
ETA: It's the same thing with writing. While I was in high school, the class was sometimes asked to read a book and write a book report about it. In one class, we all read the SAME book, and were limited in how many (handwritten) pages the report could be.
The takeaway was that no two reports were alike. Descriptions may have overlapped, but the book had a unique impact on everyone in the class. Some people would pay more attention to certain details, while others completely left those details out.
Not every Christian shares the same beliefs as other Christians.
But then again, not all atheists share the same beliefs about their own atheism, either.
No arguments with any of that. Problem is, your analogies don't apply well to the topic at hand.
First of all, there is no question that the artistic creations you describe (pictures, literature, I'll add music to the list) actually exist. That's a major difference, right off the bat, because the existence of many religious beliefs is very much a matter of debate. Beyond that (and we really needn't and shouldn't go "beyond that"), things like art, literature and music are, indeed, subject to individual perceptions and understanding. Whether we like them or appreciate them, what meaning we draw from them, what impact they have on us is, as they say, "in the eye of the beholder." But the structure of reality (i.e., the basic facts that describe the world around us) is not in the eye of the beholder. Either the earth is flat or it is not. Either the earth revolves around the sun or it does not. Either there is a tree standing in front of us, or there is not. Either we have blood in our veins or we do not. Either we are both looking at that picture, or we are not (regardless of what we see in it, which is a different matter). Either that book has pages or it does not (regardless of what details we glean from them, which is a different matter).
Unless, of course, you want to acknowledge that religious beliefs are much like those artistic creations you reference... created by human imagination, not necessarily grounded in or depicting reality, and subject to the same individual interpretations and understanding? THEN it would be a great analogy!
Last edited by HeelaMonster; 06-11-2021 at 04:06 PM..
Yes, the tiresome argument that X% of the world's people ("including the world's greatest thinkers!") believed something at one point in time... tossed out as if that is evidence, and all the evidence needed... ignores the obvious. That a great many people ("including the world's greatest thinkers!") have been wrong about a great number of things over long periods of history. It is an argument hardly worth refuting, because it is not worth making in the first place.
That observation is then countered with "Well it was Science that got those things wrong" (so there!). Further ignoring that Science (or more accurately, the tools of science as they have been applied over that past few hundred years) is the reason we now know better, and that science is intended to be self-correcting as new information becomes available.
With regard to this particular "something" believed by 9 out of 10, that also ignores the reality that no 2 of those 9 are likely to share an identical picture, understanding or concept of that belief. Which ought to tell us something right there?
I'm stating the facts of how the people of this world are.
You like "facts" so much...why don't you dig those facts?
And I have said all along...there are as many different beliefs and sets of preferences as there are people. So...it doesn't matter. Nobody is "better" or "worse" than anyone else based upon what they do or do not know and/or believe.
It doesn't matter what people know or believe...they and we use whatever knowledge and preferences they have in the way they feel suits them best.
Humankind has been around with God Belief and Religion a lot longer that has with technology of any degree.
If we needed "scientific" & "technical" knowledge so much...we would have never survived.
I'm stating the facts of how the people of this world are.
You like "facts" so much...why don't you dig those facts?
And I have said all along...there are as many different beliefs and sets of preferences as there are people. So...it doesn't matter. Nobody is "better" or "worse" than anyone else based upon what they do or do not know and/or believe. It doesn't matter what people know or believe...they and we use whatever knowledge and preferences they have in the way they feel suits them best.
Cool. Your repeated references to the 9 of 10 who believe (though lately I see 85%... are you losing support??) suggested that it matters a great deal. Glad to know it does not! Maybe now you can quit citing those numbers, as if they somehow make something true and/or bolster your personal views.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
Humankind has been around with God Belief and Religion a lot longer that has with technology of any degree.
If we needed "scientific" & "technical" knowledge so much...we would have never survived.
You lump knowledge and belief, and it may not much matter what people "believe" (until it starts to affect others). But it matters a great deal what people "know." You can be thankful somebody actually "knew" things, every time you get on an airplane, or drive your car to the grocery store, or eat those groceries without getting sick, or sit down at the computer to entertain yourself, or get vaccinated, or live another day past the age of 35. Your last line ignores the reality that this much-maligned knowledge is, in fact, the reason you have survived.
The observation that god belief has been around longer than technology (although the wheel and fire came along relatively early...) is no more relevant or persuasive than "85% believe all sorts of random stuff, that I'm lumping together."
Last edited by HeelaMonster; 06-11-2021 at 04:03 PM..
What I find amusing is pyrite boy admitting in that long post that religious fundamentalism is dangerous, and then ignoring that to once again whine about atheists.
Yes, he is who he is, and most definitely isn't what he isn't. Pyrite sums it up nicely, IMHO.
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