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Old 06-22-2021, 10:35 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,494 posts, read 4,541,382 times
Reputation: 3026

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I occasionally argue with idiots because they pose a danger by voting and breeding. I may not change them but I get enough reps from lurkers who appreciate my efforts. That keeps me going.
Got it. That is interesting, because I see atheists forcefully saying that they don't like theist trying to impose their views on others and want them to not keep their views for themselves. Is that not what you are doing yourself? You can slice it anyway you want, but the bottom line is that you are doing the same they are doing.
Voting? Is this not a democratic country. Why not let them vote as they see fit and you vote as you see fit. In other words, what you are saying is "I respect your point of views as long as you don't disagree with mine." That is what I see you doing.
You have a great day.
elamigo
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Old 06-22-2021, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,091,717 times
Reputation: 14069
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Got it. That is interesting, because I see atheists forcefully saying that they don't like theist trying to impose their views on others and want them to not keep their views for themselves. Is that not what you are doing yourself? You can slice it anyway you want, but the bottom line is that you are doing the same they are doing.
Voting? Is this not a democratic country. Why not let them vote as they see fit and you vote as you see fit. In other words, what you are saying is "I respect your point of views as long as you don't disagree with mine." That is what I see you doing.
You have a great day.
elamigo
You "see" wrongly.

I'm not an atheist ( though there's nothing wrong...) and I have no axe to grind with Joe or Jane Average Believer. But I detest fundies and phonies.

I'll have the day I'm having, thanks.
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Old 06-22-2021, 10:56 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,494 posts, read 4,541,382 times
Reputation: 3026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
1) I do not want to convert the idiots, I want to explain why they are wrong so that others can see why they are wrong. I want people to make a choice based on valid points, not bad data. Take creationism for an example. It is being sold as backed by science, but when you look at the data, this is not true. Or the idea that atheists are evil. Or in my country in the 1930's, that Jews were bad people.

2) It is a good way for me to practice my English.
Science, a favorite point used by atheists. Let us go from that premise. So you are doing the very same thing many atheists accuse them of, proselytizing. I see many atheists saying theists should keep their views for themselves, yet you are not doing what you are preaching, correct?

Now, as far as science. Look at your words above: I want people to make a choice base on valid point, not bad data." You want them? Who are you do demand such thing on other people. For the sake of argument. Their data is not valid. OK, I got that. Are they happy living their lives? If so, let them believe what they want!

I have read books on creationism, a good theist teacher will say that he cannot prove the existence of a deity with certainty. He will say that he will show data suggests that it is possible of such force to exists. I believe he will use deductive reasoning. He may believe there is enough for him to believe in such spiritual force. Let him!
Thomas Jefferson wrote: It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods of no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
That is wisdom and maturity! He does not say "I want people...." He respect differing views. That is why he is an icon in American history.

Also, keep in mind that science is a topic that people keep learning from everyday in some form or another. New discoveries prove that past knowledge was wrong. In the past people said what present science data show was the correct one, only to find out later that it was not the case.
That is why I believe there is such as thing called open mind. Yes, right now something may not make sense. I keep my mind open to ideas that today may not make sense at all. Also, I take a close look to see if I am so close minded to the point that all I see is idiots in front of me.

As far as you second point, I am with you. Discussing is a good way to practice English. English is my second language. That part of why I like to discuss topics in this forums also. I share that need with you too.
You have a great day.
elamigo
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Old 06-22-2021, 11:00 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,494 posts, read 4,541,382 times
Reputation: 3026
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
My point is that there are two forums that the TOS is clear about.
In the Christianity forum, it is not allowed to question the existence of Jesus/God.
Likewise, it is against forum rules to proselytize in the Atheist forum.
It seems to be well adhered to in the Christianity forum.
This one is a free for all.
Thanks for the information. I do not agree with the TOS, but I salute the flag and keep going. What I am pointing out are the futile, childish, and boor approaches some people use to discuss their topics. Do they do it because of hubris, aggrandizement, to humiliate, or something else? Why waste so much time when you know it will lead nowhere? The same happens in the politics forums. People seem to have this desire to prove others wrong and ignorance under the guise that it is the best for people when I reality they are saying "I like it this way."
You have a great day.
elamigo
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Old 06-22-2021, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Germany
16,629 posts, read 4,912,984 times
Reputation: 2084
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Science, a favorite point used by atheists. Let us go from that premise. So you are doing the very same thing many atheists accuse them of, proselytizing. I see many atheists saying theists should keep their views for themselves, yet you are not doing what you are preaching, correct?
No, science is a tool to try and find out what is true. It is different to preaching one of the many different religions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Now, as far as science. Look at your words above: I want people to make a choice base on valid point, not bad data." You want them? Who are you do demand such thing on other people. For the sake of argument. Their data is not valid. OK, I got that. Are they happy living their lives? If so, let them believe what they want!
Who are you to misrepresent what I said? I am demanding nothing, I want (as in would like) them to use valid data instead of lies and bad arguments. Because their bad decisions based on bad data can effect others. And science is a benefit for everyone. Religion is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
I have read books on creationism, a good theist teacher will say that he cannot prove the existence of a deity with certainty. He will say that he will show data suggests that it is possible of such force to exists. I believe he will use deductive reasoning. He may believe there is enough for him to believe in such spiritual force. Let him!
So you want con men to drag your country back to the middle ages? Christianity lost or destroyed the classical science of my ancestors, and that held back Europe for 1000 years. If we knew in 1021 what we knew now, we would know how to have prevented many of the 200 million deaths from the Bubonic Pest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Thomas Jefferson wrote: It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods of no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
That is wisdom and maturity! He does not say "I want people...." He respect differing views. That is why he is an icon in American history.
Talking about gods is different to trying to force creationist lies into science and politics, or driving trucks into crowded Christmas markets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Also, keep in mind that science is a topic that people keep learning from everyday in some form or another. New discoveries prove that past knowledge was wrong. In the past people said what present science data show was the correct one, only to find out later that it was not the case.
That is why I believe there is such as thing called open mind. Yes, right now something may not make sense. I keep my mind open to ideas that today may not make sense at all. Also, I take a close look to see if I am so close minded to the point that all I see is idiots in front of me.
The findings of science have been natural forces for the last 2400 years. One would expect if a god responsible for why we are here, we would have found a clue by this time.
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Old 06-22-2021, 12:52 PM
 
29,428 posts, read 9,611,301 times
Reputation: 3447
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
For many of the Atheists here, their Atheism is based upon what I called "The LOBBUNE Doctrine" (Lack Of Belief Based Upon No Evidence)...a Logical Fallacy from the get-go: Argument From Ignorance.
They use "No Evidence" as evidence to make a determination as to what position they should take on the existence of a God Entity.
Now add the "Invincible Ignorance Fallacy" they constantly employ...and that's a wrap.
Good point. People really should base their beliefs on no evidence. A lot less anyway. The less the better. Less evidence and the acceptance of less evidence, even no evidence makes it so much easier to believe whatever we like...

That's the BWWL doctrine that seems to be preferred by all too many people, but it works! For them it works magically!

Add the "Invincible Ignorance Fallacy," and that's another wrap!

Kind of like a mixed salad wrap. Very tasty for some. Not so much for others...
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Old 06-22-2021, 12:59 PM
 
29,428 posts, read 9,611,301 times
Reputation: 3447
Quote:
Originally Posted by The First View Post
Yes indeed.... apparently God made a mistake!

WHAT???....HUSH UP NOW!

God doesn't make mistakes... he just covers them up. That's why he sent his son Jesus Christ to die on the cross as an atonement for the sins of mankind.

It was an atonement of Blood...since God is bloodthirsty (and he needs money.... lots and lots of money).

If this thread were about all the "crazy" stuff man has done as a result of believing in God since the beginning, it would be endless. Just recently reading about what the Olmec, Maya, Teotihuacan, Toltec, and Aztec did to satisfy their gods, for example. Just one of countless examples!

Just a little lesson about what we humans can come to believe and do as a result of these kinds of beliefs. Still to this day. Some things just never change...
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Old 06-22-2021, 01:04 PM
 
29,428 posts, read 9,611,301 times
Reputation: 3447
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I'm sure he'd rather be a mesa than a butte.
Your Arizona is showing.
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Old 06-22-2021, 01:12 PM
 
29,428 posts, read 9,611,301 times
Reputation: 3447
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
My point is that there are two forums that the TOS is clear about.
In the Christianity forum, it is not allowed to question the existence of Jesus/God.
Likewise, it is against forum rules to proselytize in the Atheist forum.
It seems to be well adhered to in the Christianity forum.
This one is a free for all.
I really have to wonder about any forum that prevents the questioning of anything...

Or anyone who expects all that much from these forums in the way of decorum. If you are here, you should know better, and if the heartburn is such or the skin too thin, really best you go elsewhere I think.
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Old 06-22-2021, 01:15 PM
 
29,428 posts, read 9,611,301 times
Reputation: 3447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Water View Post
AA,


I will conclude from your silence that you are in complete accord with what I have stated, and will hold that conclusion until you assert otherwise.
Funny.

If anyone concluded from my silence about many a comment posted in this thread that I was in complete accord...

Well that's made for my best chuckle so far today. Thanks!
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