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For my first 50 years, I too questioned and doubted.
Yet with my career IN the sciences - deep science has never been able to prove that God doesn't exist.
Still not enough for me, I finally found a 'Gotcha' verse in the NT of the bible:
Jesus stated the He and the Father would 'make their dwelling with those who love Him and obey His commands".
Searching for 'someone' who had accomplished that, I found them, and found HIM!
Sadly, I think that personal encounter is what it does take. That has to be what called by the Father is all about. What bothers me is why it seems so random and isn't more widespread. I had ZERO interest in making any such connection with a God, but I diligently and rigorously sought the peace of Nirvana in meditation. Who knew that was God!
Sadly, I think that personal encounter is what it does take. That has to be what called by the Father is all about. What bothers me is why it seems so random and isn't more widespread. I had ZERO interest in making any such connection with a God, but I diligently and rigorously sought the peace of Nirvana in meditation. Who knew that was God!
And therefore you can probably see why us atheists will forever be atheists.
It doesn't make the slightest sense to me why god would be so coy and shy, only revealing himself after decades of meditation on your part. While others claim they were just sitting about one day and god just appeared with no effort on their part. There's no consistency.
I think maybe there's this idea that atheists are dead set in their minds that god doesn't exist. In reality there are times when I have wished god existed. You know my story. I nursed a child through three and a half years of leukemia. I wished god existed in those days. I really did. But if god didn't reveal himself then he never will.
Yeah I know, then people tell me god works in mysterious ways and that you should never ask for anything. Whats the point in praying then?
It's all and forever will be, a mystery to me.
The evidence of God is for those who engage in surrendering to God and their time and praying and believing or going to a church where there is evidence of Holy Spirit and were the church does preach the gospel of Christ. ............ In the world the justice of God can be seen through the support that God can muster, as look to the collapse of the Roman Empire, and Germany post 1940 post-war, as these groups of people rejected the Jewish people who God supports ....and the American abolition is the support God got through the spirit ...... All these evidence is only for people who believe, where people who reason out these will never have evidence
Yes of course. Religious texts were amongst the first books ever written by the few people who could actually write. Of course they were influential. They could have written any old nonsense and it would have been influential, and indeed did include an awful lot of nonsense.
All of it was taken to be absolutely literal by many until quite recently. Many people still think it is all literal.
Of course now we know that it is all stories used to explain what was not understood about nature and to guide people along with some sort of convoluted version of morality. Thats not to say people didn't take it literally at the time.
You are viewing it from a very 21st century perspective.
You explained this well.
I grew up in a time -- the 1950s and 1960s -- when for most christians the bible was considered to be literally the word of god, whether written by him, or infused into the writers by him. That's what we were told in the methodist church. And for decades after that, as a catholic, we were required to recite in mass the creed, which in part said, "We believe in all that is seen and unseen".
In the past, perhaps, 25 years, the attitude of literalism in the bible has waned a bit, but it's still there for MANY christians.
And therefore you can probably see why us atheists will forever be atheists.
It doesn't make the slightest sense to me why god would be so coy and shy, only revealing himself after decades of meditation on your part. While others claim they were just sitting about one day and god just appeared with no effort on their part. There's no consistency.
I think maybe there's this idea that atheists are dead set in their minds that god doesn't exist. In reality there are times when I have wished god existed. You know my story. I nursed a child through three and a half years of leukemia. I wished god existed in those days. I really did. But if god didn't reveal himself then he never will.
Yeah I know, then people tell me god works in mysterious ways and that you should never ask for anything. Whats the point in praying then?
It's all and forever will be, a mystery to me.
Another good post. You're on a roll!
If tomorrow I found out that there was "God", well, then that's the way it is. But until I discover that, I'm going to continue to question all the claims and influence.
If tomorrow I found out that there was "God", well, then that's the way it is. But until I discover that, I'm going to continue to question all the claims and influence.
So I ask if anyone has any evidence (demonstrable and on-point) that the story of god etc., is true. Any evidence at all. IF you do, please provide it in following posts if you would be so kind.
The only evidence you would accept would come from within yourself. But you will likely never go there, in that direction; truly seek and explore. So your thread is pointless and futile.
Don't ask "where's the beef" if you're not hungry, and don't intend to eat. LOL
Last edited by Thoreau424; 06-22-2021 at 12:04 PM..
I have gone down this path before but have yet to get a meaningful much less believable, response. So, in the hopes that somebody can come up with something I proceed.
The premise of the existence of a god is a hugely-outlandish story complete with such things as heaven, hell, angels, devils, eternal life and a whole bunch more elements that are not in the least visible to the naked eye. Great floods, Garden of Eden on and on.
Much of this story is based on religious dogma contained in the bible, notably the "story" of the beginnings of the Universe including the speck of dust we live on, orbiting a small spark we call the sun.
Over the centuries much has been discovered about the true nature of our planet, solar system, galaxy and universe and virtually-all of it contradicts dogma. At the very least nothing of significance has been found to support the dogma.
So I ask if anyone has any evidence (demonstrable and on-point) that the story of god etc., is true. Any evidence at all. IF you do, please provide it in following posts if you would be so kind.
I will address your point, but I believe you want to discuss the existence of intelligence beyond our realm based on the Judeo-Christian view.
I do not believe the Bible is the word of God, nor do I believe that Jesus is the son of god. However, I believe that there is design in the universe that required intelligence. I believe that inductive reasoning can provide the "possibility" that there was a designer. For all I know, that designer created things in the universe and went on to do other things without paying attention to what we are doing. Or, maybe he or she is influencing humanity in some ways. I do not care what he or she is doing, nor do I pray to him or her.
I do find wisdom in some part of the Bible. But I also find it from the Vedas, or Buddha, or some other sources.
One source that I consider is presented in a balanced way is the video series by Dr. Stephen Myers. This guy is no lightweight. He does not make a categorical statement that God exists. He posits what he believes there are enough indicators that God may exist. His series is called "Does God Exist, Building the Scientific Case." He concludes that there are enough logic and indicators that God exits. Will you agree? I do not know. However, he presents his thesis with good scientific points and uses logic too.
Now, Christians tend to say that you have to have faith. That is fine and dandy to a degree. Having faith does not mean you believe blindly, something many Christians reflect. Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Peter 3:15 "...always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have." To me that demands for Christians do not to simply say "You have to have faith." Well, Hebrews 11:1 says "Faith is the assured expectation of what is hope for, the the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen yet." This demands evidence. So, a good Christian keeps finding more evidence that strengthens his or her faith.
You have a great day.
elamigo
You can keep asking for evidence, but I wouldn't expect you to see any. Religion is a spiritual matter for which objective evidence is unlikely.
Here is the point, YOU don't expect any evidence. Have you closely read writers that show what they believe is enough to believe there is a designer. Or are you simply repeating what others say, or trying to control people to express what they see enough evidence for them to conclude that there is a deity?
So you don't expect to see any. Well, sit down with an open mind and maybe someone comes up with some interesting information. Not expecting any is an indicator or a close mind.
My suggestion? Leave your expectations and let people discuss their point without commenting presuppositions, regardless of how "evident" things are to you. That is what I called allowing people to express their views, however irrational they may seem. Argumentation is to share views and ideas.
You have a great day.
elamigo
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