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There is NO evidence that natural selection can adequately explain evolution.
Before you make a further fool of yourself look at the video I went to the trouble of posting, and then do some further research.
Natural selection is a factor that drives evolution but it's not the only factor. Mutation, gene flow, and genetic drift are other factors involved in evolution.
Before you make a further fool of yourself look at the video I went to the trouble of posting, and then do some further research.
Natural selection is a factor that drives evolution but it's not the only factor. Mutation, gene flow, and genetic drift are other factors involved in evolution.
According to the currently accepted theory of evolution, there is no intelligence involved. Natural selection is the most important factor.
And the fact that you accuse me of being a fool means your emotions are very much involved in this topic. Not surprising, since neo-Darwinism is the foundation of modern atheism.
According to the currently accepted theory of evolution, there is no intelligence involved. Natural selection is the most important factor.
And the fact that you accuse me of being a fool means your emotions are very much involved in this topic. Not surprising, since neo-Darwinism is the foundation of modern atheism.
No, I just recognize foolish claims when I hear them.
Again, there are other factors besides natural selection involved regardless of which factor is the most important.
But if you expect atheists to accept that an intelligence directs evolution you've got a long wait ahead of you.
I myself hold to theistic evolution otherwise known as evolutionary creation, but I'm not going to try to convince an atheist of that.
And I agree with Cruithne. It's tiresome explaining things to a person that doesn't want to understand.
No, I just recognize foolish claims when I hear them.
Again, there are other factors besides natural selection involved regardless of which factor is the most important.
But if you expect atheists to accept that an intelligence directs evolution you've got a long wait ahead of you.
I myself hold to theistic evolution otherwise known as evolutionary creation, but I'm not going to try to convince an atheist of that.
And I agree with Cruithne. It's tiresome explaining things to a person that doesn't want to understand.
If you want to convince someone you could try making sense. You believe in theistic evolution but you are having some kind of problem with my believing in intelligent evolution.
I am someone who doesn't want to understand what? I don't want to understand that natural selection is the driving force of evolution? No I don't want to understand that because it isn't true. And it contradicts what you claim to believe.
Maybe this is just a taboo subject for you. I don't feel I have to avoid a subject just because it's important and might get someone stressed out.
If you want to convince someone you could try making sense. You believe in theistic evolution but you are having some kind of problem with my believing in intelligent evolution.
I am someone who doesn't want to understand what? I don't want to understand that natural selection is the driving force of evolution? No I don't want to understand that because it isn't true. And it contradicts what you claim to believe.
Maybe this is just a taboo subject for you. I don't feel I have to avoid a subject just because it's important and might get someone stressed out.
I don't have a problem with you believing in intelligent evolution. I'm disagreeing with your claim that natural selection is not a driving factor of evolution. Natural selection is the process whereby organisms better adapted to their environment tend to survive and produce more offspring.
I had a thread pulled by the mods because it was about evolution. Ok, this one is NOT about evolution, it's about creation, and the intelligent design debate. I definitely think it belongs in a spiritual forum.
Before mid 20th century, atheists had trouble defending their belief that "all this" could have arisen for no reason. That life got started and became what it is basically by chance.
Straton, the third leader at Aristotle’s Lyceum (circa 335 – 269 BC) was arguing for naturalism and against creationism, even though he believed in gods. But his arguments did not rely on any gods,and his philosophy based on scientific methodology works without the need of any gods.
We also have the Vedas from around 500 BC based on atheism.
We do not know how many atheists actually existed because it was often a death penalty to be an atheist, but even the religious scientists such as Newton never came to a scientific conclusion that God did it.
And the religious also had difficulty defending their beliefs, that is why there are so many different beliefs, because you can not make a rational argument for them.
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Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
Then we had neo-Darwinism around the 1950s, ...
1950's? Your ignorance is amusing.
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Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
... which says that genetic changes happen entirely by chance, and natural selection weeds them out. And, they say, THAT is all we need to explain the complexity of life.
Ok there will be a little science here, but it is needed. I can't explain the main problem with atheism without this.
Atheists will tell you they have overwhelming evidence for neo-Darwinism, and there can be no doubt about how and why life started and evolved.
No, we can doubt, but until you provide evidence for your claims, it is the best we have. And that evidence must be very good because the evidence for evolution is strong.
Why do you straw man atheism all the time?
And why do you not refute neo-Darwinism in the science section? Present your evidence there, because the only people who make posts about evolution here are either ignorant, dishonest, or both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
But wait, here is where it gets confusing and important to understand. The evidence atheists are so proud of is for evolution, and it is for natural selection. We KNOW that evolution did happen! And we KNOW that natural selection happens all the time!
So case closed, right? NO WRONG. There is NO evidence that evolution was caused by random changes acted on by natural selection.
Please let that sink it for a minute. NO EVIDENCE for the most important theory in modern biology. No evidence for the theory that atheists have been waving like a flag for 70 years.
Yes, all these biologists with real PhDs have no evidence.
I had a thread pulled by the mods because it was about evolution. Ok, this one is NOT about evolution, it's about creation, and the intelligent design debate. I definitely think it belongs in a spiritual forum.
Before mid 20th century, atheists had trouble defending their belief that "all this" could have arisen for no reason. That life got started and became what it is basically by chance.
Then we had neo-Darwinism around the 1950s, which says that genetic changes happen entirely by chance, and natural selection weeds them out. And, they say, THAT is all we need to explain the complexity of life.
Ok there will be a little science here, but it is needed. I can't explain the main problem with atheism without this.
Atheists will tell you they have overwhelming evidence for neo-Darwinism, and there can be no doubt about how and why life started and evolved.
But wait, here is where it gets confusing and important to understand. The evidence atheists are so proud of is for evolution, and it is for natural selection. We KNOW that evolution did happen! And we KNOW that natural selection happens all the time!
So case closed, right? NO WRONG. There is NO evidence that evolution was caused by random changes acted on by natural selection.
Please let that sink it for a minute. NO EVIDENCE for the most important theory in modern biology. No evidence for the theory that atheists have been waving like a flag for 70 years.
Man I wish I had you in a room with a board and books to show you how we think and why.
There are atheist that have no doubt. Just like there are theist. Because it really is based on type of people more than the belief itself. That just can't be argued rationally.
So, you are talking about atheist that know they are right. That is different than most atheist atheist.
Most atheist are not sure. They just do not see a deity type. If there is a "some type of god", it did it through evolution. Maybe, like I showed you before, it exist because we exist. Much like we exist because cells exist. We just don;t see a deity thing that is as much a part of our lives as the big religions say. Thats it, And most, if any, of that type of atheist is not here. In fact, some atheist say those types of atheist are not real atheist.
Toss in abuse, addiction, and mental illness and the whole thing becomes a quagmire. People that will not yeild or take personal responsibility are a far bigger problem than "atheism" for you, to me.
I had a thread pulled by the mods because it was about evolution. Ok, this one is NOT about evolution, it's about creation, and the intelligent design debate. I definitely think it belongs in a spiritual forum.
No, you had a thread closed because you started a thread about science. That's what this one is turning into. It will surely be closed sooner than later. "Intelligent design" is just another phrase to describe "creationism."
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Before mid 20th century, atheists had trouble defending their belief that "all this" could have arisen for no reason. That life got started and became what it is basically by chance.
"Atheists" are people that don't believe in God. They may or may not believe "that "all this" could have arisen for no reason." It doesn't really matter in terms of whether they believe God exists or not.
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Then we had neo-Darwinism around the 1950s, which says that genetic changes happen entirely by chance, and natural selection weeds them out. And, they say, THAT is all we need to explain the complexity of life.
First of all, "neo-Darwinism" is a term that first appeared in the 19th Century. I've never heard it used by, or referring to, real scientists. This is another of those terms, line "intelligent design" that are used by Young Earth Creationists who seem to think they are refuting the world of science.
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Ok there will be a little science here, but it is needed. I can't explain the main problem with atheism without this.
Atheism is simply the lack of belief in God (or any gods, for that matter). Why do you think a lack of belief in God depends on evolution?
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Atheists will tell you they have overwhelming evidence for neo-Darwinism, and there can be no doubt about how and why life started and evolved.
I've been watching the atheists discuss here on City-Data for over a dozen years. A few of them have been highly educated scientists. They rarely discuss evolution unless somebody brings it up, like you did, with incorrect information. Then they tell people that evolution does not concern itself with how or why life started.
Quote:
But wait, here is where it gets confusing and important to understand. The evidence atheists are so proud of is for evolution, and it is for natural selection. We KNOW that evolution did happen! And we KNOW that natural selection happens all the time!
Why do you think atheists are proud of well established science?
Quote:
So case closed, right? NO WRONG. There is NO evidence that evolution was caused by random changes acted on by natural selection.
There are a number of factors that cause species to evolve. Malthusian competition, normal variation, and mutations lead to natural selection, genetic variation, and Mendelian inheritance, which results in changes in species over time, the very definition of evolution.
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Please let that sink it for a minute. NO EVIDENCE for the most important theory in modern biology. No evidence for the theory that atheists have been waving like a flag for 70 years.
Darwin published his book describing the basis of evolution in 1949. Atheists have existed as long as humans have existed. The vast majority of atheists seemingly have very little or no interest in evolution. Knowing it is well established science probably has something to do with it.
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Now, is there something about Religion or Spirituality you'd like to discuss? If not, this discussion is probably off topic for the usual reasons. Religion is based on beliefs. Science is not. When people start these discussions, they usually demonstrate how much they don't know about the science. I'm always surprised that it isn't embarrassing.
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Your ignorance is amusing.
