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Old 12-20-2023, 01:14 PM
 
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I've recently been interested in Baha'i Faith's claim that Krishna, Zoroaster, Abraham, the Buddha, Jesus, and Mohammad were all manifestations of God sent to their respective place and time to help those people develop spiritually. They claim that the Bab and Baha'u'llah are the manifestations of our time, and that other manifestations will follow them to help the people of the future with their spiritual progress. That claim of ultimate connection between the religions appeals to a lot of people. However, it conflicts with some of the claims of the other religions. From what I've seen, Baha'i Faith addresses those conflicts by saying those conflicting claims were misinterpreted by those religions' followers.

This thread is the first I've heard about Shoghi Effendi being the first to say the other religions' leaders were each a manifestation of God. One would think a claim of that significance would have been made early and clearly by the Bab or Baha'u'llah.

I found another forum that painted Baha'i Faith as a cult. They spoke of Baha'i followers being fined monetarily for getting a divorce, about pressure to convert people to Baha'i, and other issues. If that's common for Baha'i, I won't look into Baha'i any further. If those people were talking about an uncommon subset of Baha'i, I'll just avoid that subset.

Last edited by Masamune; 12-20-2023 at 02:26 PM..
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Old 12-20-2023, 08:41 PM
 
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I have decided that all the sibling rivalry that the many religions foster is counterproductive to our spiritual maturation. They are more of stumbling blocks than aids, IMO. Cults or not, it seems to make little difference. I have begun to believe that there is no need to pick a religion because there is only ONE God. I do not believe God cares what religion you belong to, what erroneous beliefs you have, or what magic rituals you perform. Our God is only concerned with what kind of person (Spirit) you are BECOMING, period! I KNOW by experience, that we ALL have God within us whether or not we acknowledge it, so we DO know when what we do is wrong without the need for anyone else to tell us.

The very real and persistent problem is our willingness to pretend we do not know what is wrong without religion or external guidance and to do wrong in our self-interest. But my encounter convinces me that nothing motivated by genuine agape love of God and each other can ever be wrong, no matter what it is. The key is that genuine Agape demands concern and consideration for EVERYONE affected by what we do, with no exceptions (friend or foe!). It is not remotely easy in this world, but that is the whole point, IMO! Most of us will spend varying amounts of time in regret, remorse, and repentance unless we are truly becoming scum bags! In truth, we have no clue what happens to scum bags, but I suspect it is neither pleasant nor desirable.
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Old 12-22-2023, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
971 posts, read 531,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duvduv View Post
There are many websites on the subject, as well as articles on Wikipedia. But maybe those who are familiar with it would like to discuss it here.
But what was on your mind to prompt starting this thread? Just telling people to google it is not a satisfactory answer.
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Old 12-22-2023, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
971 posts, read 531,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duvduv View Post
As it happens, there were smaller movements that disagreed with the larger one. When Mirza Hussein Ali (known as Baha'u'llah) was in prison with other followers of the Bab (who was executed as a revolutionary several years earlier) he claimed to have been visited by a divine being who revealed to him that he was the promised successor of the Bab (Mirza Ali Muhammad). Hussein Ali only revealed this information to a select few for about 10 years, while his stepbrother, Mirza Yahya Nuri, known as Subh-i-Azal, was the original leader. Eventually most of the community of Babis accepted the leadership of Baha'u'llah while a minority continued to follow Subh-i-Azal. They still exist in Iran and are known as Azalis or Babis. They reject the entire Bahai system and follow only the teachings of the Bab and Subh-i-Azal, who did not claim he was the second Messiah like Baha'u'llah did. There is a website that discusses this at www.bayanic.com.
Things didn't end there. When Baha'u'llah died there was a division between the followers of his second son, Abdul Baha and his elder brother Muhammad Ali. Eventually these other followers were distanced from the Bahai. There is a website that discusses this which calls itself Unitarian Bahai. Then upon the death of the official head, Abdul Baha, there were disputes whether or not he appointed his grandson, Ghoshi Effendi as his official successor. The ones who opposed Ghoshi Effendi were called Free Bahai. People who call themselves Free Bahai today have a website. Then there are those who were disputing with one another upon the death of Ghoshi Effendi. Some called themselves Orthodox Bahai (with websites) and followed a senior Bahai official, Mason Remey, who claimed that he was the heir to Ghoshi Effendi as the Second Guardian. The main group rejected that this happened, and say that the position of Guardian no longer exists. Other groups sprouted up after Mason Remey and have websites.
Seems typically human to me. It happens all the time when someone creates a group and is considered the leader, someone decides they want to lead or disagree and take their marbles to a "new" game. It is still the same game no matter what religion it is based on. Nothing new to see here, just humans being themselves.
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Old 12-22-2023, 09:13 AM
 
29,526 posts, read 9,696,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat56 View Post
Seems typically human to me. It happens all the time when someone creates a group and is considered the leader, someone decides they want to lead or disagree and take their marbles to a "new" game. It is still the same game no matter what religion it is based on. Nothing new to see here, just humans being themselves.
Bummer. I had such high hopes as I scanned this forum for threads that might make a difference this morning. Again dashed just like that. Does tend to look like a lot of game playing to me too...
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Old 12-22-2023, 12:30 PM
 
962 posts, read 512,238 times
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My ex was a Bahai, or at least nominally a Bahai. We went a few times to the home of the Middle Eastern couple who introduced her to it in Hilo, Hi. I didn't see the attraction. Its just one of the legions of religions that promises this or that, but relies solely on unproven belief(s). They wanted people to believe something because it was written in a book. Now where have we seen that before?

Do we really need another religion like that? No, we don't. And there is zero hope of unifying all the religions because its impossible when each says they have the truth, and their truth is different from the other religion's truth. Mind you, I'm not criticizing the people who are Bahai, I'm just saying that it doesn't offer anything different that the other mainstream religions.
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Old 12-22-2023, 02:57 PM
 
Location: NSW
3,796 posts, read 2,991,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenMM View Post
My ex was a Bahai, or at least nominally a Bahai. We went a few times to the home of the Middle Eastern couple who introduced her to it in Hilo, Hi. I didn't see the attraction. Its just one of the legions of religions that promises this or that, but relies solely on unproven belief(s). They wanted people to believe something because it was written in a book. Now where have we seen that before?

Do we really need another religion like that? No, we don't. And there is zero hope of unifying all the religions because its impossible when each says they have the truth, and their truth is different from the other religion's truth. Mind you, I'm not criticizing the people who are Bahai, I'm just saying that it doesn't offer anything different that the other mainstream religions.
Interesting thoughts and some first hand knowledge.
Yes, this religion does sound great in theory, but the mixture of holy books does seem difficult to accomplish.
They are not common enough to have many temples around, at least for the casual visitor or observer.
But I’ve only been into Buddhist temples as far as separate religions go, in Thailand and in Hawaii.
Certainly I wouldn’t mind visiting one, and they don’t seem to be overly zealous in trying to recruit or convert new members either.
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Old 12-24-2023, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
971 posts, read 531,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Bummer. I had such high hopes as I scanned this forum for threads that might make a difference this morning. Again dashed just like that. Does tend to look like a lot of game playing to me too...
What kind of difference were you hoping to make? This is a discussion forum, is it not?
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Old 12-27-2023, 09:50 AM
 
29,526 posts, read 9,696,629 times
Reputation: 3466
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat56 View Post
What kind of difference were you hoping to make? This is a discussion forum, is it not?
Indeed, and my sincere apologies...

I suppose I'm always hoping for threads/comments I find a little more interesting to consider, but of course that's a very subjective matter and we all know what can be a great discussion for some can be something else altogether for others. My bad. As you were. I'll stick to the ones I more generally prefer. I was mostly referring or responding to this comment I quoted in particular; "Nothing new to see here, just humans being themselves."

Carry on...
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Old 12-27-2023, 06:28 PM
 
Location: NSW
3,796 posts, read 2,991,840 times
Reputation: 1367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masamune View Post
I've recently been interested in Baha'i Faith's claim that Krishna, Zoroaster, Abraham, the Buddha, Jesus, and Mohammad were all manifestations of God sent to their respective place and time to help those people develop spiritually. They claim that the Bab and Baha'u'llah are the manifestations of our time, and that other manifestations will follow them to help the people of the future with their spiritual progress. That claim of ultimate connection between the religions appeals to a lot of people. However, it conflicts with some of the claims of the other religions. From what I've seen, Baha'i Faith addresses those conflicts by saying those conflicting claims were misinterpreted by those religions' followers.

This thread is the first I've heard about Shoghi Effendi being the first to say the other religions' leaders were each a manifestation of God. One would think a claim of that significance would have been made early and clearly by the Bab or Baha'u'llah.

I found another forum that painted Baha'i Faith as a cult. They spoke of Baha'i followers being fined monetarily for getting a divorce, about pressure to convert people to Baha'i, and other issues. If that's common for Baha'i, I won't look into Baha'i any further. If those people were talking about an uncommon subset of Baha'i, I'll just avoid that subset.
Yes I have also read that there may be some cultic or controlling aspects of Bahaism.
Most notably being total abstinence from alcohol and no drugs (the latter of which seems fair enough).
No gambling is another one.
Bear in mind Islam and some Christian denominations also enforce such laws and practices.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bahai-Faith
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