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So Jesus was a corpse on Friday, but fully alive again on Sunday?
Do you accept the claim that the risen Jesus subsequently raised bodily up off of the ground and disappeared into the clouds as detailed in Acts 1:9?
[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Yup! I'll bet my gullibility and naivety just boggle your mind, don't they? I guess I'm just going to have to go after a couple of those advanced degrees.
Okay. I'm just not sure I know that this is a quantitative thing we can measure. But if you think we can, I'll work with you -- for a while at least, though I'll probably stop if I figure we're going around in circles or just rehashing the same thoughts over and over again without making any discernable progress, I'll probably give up like I did last time.
Yes.
That's right, we are looking to see why we are weighting observations so differently. What is causing us to believe things that counters what we see. Yes, we do see people drop out when we unpack a position all the time. Both sides do it. At least you never resort to name calling and insults.
I have to admit, I was hoping you would say not literally. As most people use the idea.
So you say that Jesus literally rose. What observation do you have for saying that?
Before you answer, the important thing here is that I am only using your reasons. You do not give me the "rose part". I have to use only what you gave me before the "rose from the dead" part comes up. Basically, you give the observations/reason, and I come to the conclusion of "rose" by myself.
We both understand that sometimes we can have more than one answer, but "rose from the dead" would be a strong contender.
So Jesus was a corpse on Friday, but fully alive again on Sunday?
Do you accept the claim that the risen Jesus subsequently raised bodily up off of the ground and disappeared into the clouds as detailed in Acts 1:9?
[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
Yup! I'll bet my gullibility and naivety just boggle your mind, don't they? I guess I'm just going to have to go after a couple of those advanced degrees.
This sort of gullibility and naivety is not exactly unprecedented in the course of human history.
Actually I am attempting to point out that you do actually profess to believe in the truth of a story of a flying reanimated corpse. Why then does it seem to offend you to have this pointed out to you?
Nope, once resurrected, the body is no longer dead. And with the resurrection comes immortality. The body becomes perfected -- i.e., immune from deformity, disease, injury and death. And the reason? To enjoy eternal life with endless possibilities for growth and progress. The sky's the limit, you might say.
Would this be in a different place from earth? A new planet? If our body is the source of sorrow - deformity, disease, injury and death. - why is it important to have a body that is now eternal? Would the body be the same body and age as when it died and became earth?
Isn’t it our soul, spirit, that spark of divinity as mentioned before, the connection to the supreme being?
Adam came out of Godâ€s breath, didnt he? Why not go back to where the body came from - to God’s breath?
Nope, once resurrected, the body is no longer dead. And with the resurrection comes immortality. The body becomes perfected -- i.e., immune from deformity, disease, injury and death. And the reason? To enjoy eternal life with endless possibilities for growth and progress. The sky's the limit, you might say.
Why did God, the omnipotent omniscient omnipresent omnibenevolent God of love that you believe in, create deformity, disease, injury and death for all living things to endure in the first place? Original sin? You don't believe in original sin either. All living things must endure deformity, disease, injury and death. Babies are sometimes born deformed, diseased and already in the process of dying before they even have a chance to experience life. While no less tragic, this makes sense if life is simply a function of biology. Biology is naturally an imperfect process. Why would a perfect omnipotent omniscient omnipresent omnibenevolent creator Being purposely make His creations, including newly born infants, to be flawed and imperfect?
Seems rather heartless of God. Like knowingly sending His only begotten son on a mission that would inevitably end in his son's bloody and agonizing death, as an apparently necessary requirement for the repayment of a debt to Himself.
Should have read man created God in his image. Not the other way around, but the Bible had already gone to press before anyone noticed. The rest is history as they say.
Even if that is not the right explanation, though I appreciate the logic you are using to prove how illogical it is to believe God created mankind in his image, it's something of a non-starter. Is it not? God is believed to have created everything. Accordingly, all the oxygen, hydrogen and all the rest is part of how God went about creating everything, including mankind. For all we know, God is full of all those things, including lots of testosterone, so I'm not sure how evidence of all that makes up the universe is proof it wasn't all created by God or in His image.
As an atheist, however, I also don't believe God created man in his own image, so I'll not be changing your mind. At best, I'd suggest a better path of logic that is without flaw(s) and perhaps prove more convincing.
Me personally, I leave that to the scientists and the application of the scientific method...
Thanks, what is your suggested path of logic in this scenario?
Why did God, the omnipotent omniscient omnipresent omnibenevolent God of love that you believe in, create deformity, disease, injury and death for all living things to endure in the first place? Original sin? You don't believe in original sin either. All living things must endure deformity, disease, injury and death. Babies are sometimes born deformed, diseased and already in the process of dying before they even have a chance to experience life. While no less tragic, this makes sense if life is simply a function of biology. Biology is naturally an imperfect process. Why would a perfect omnipotent omniscient omnipresent omnibenevolent creator Being purposely make His creations, including newly born infants, to be flawed and imperfect?
Seems rather heartless of God. Like knowingly sending His only begotten son on a mission that would inevitably end in his son's bloody and agonizing death, as an apparently necessary requirement for the repayment of a debt to Himself.
All the things you criticize are legitimate criticisms because the concepts involved are the result of human vanity and hubris. All the Omnis are demanded by humans as a requirement for God to qualify as God. They have no other basis and are frequently self-contradictory and often in conflict with our experienced reality.
The barbaric and convoluted explanation of Christ is the result of primitive ignorance and the automatic assignment of responsibility to God for everything that happens, good or bad. If it is good, it is God's favor. If it is bad, it is God's wrath. They saw no other options and had to explain them in whatever convoluted fashion fit their primitive knowledge, understanding, and beliefs about God.
I believe that the human spirit, unlike the spirit that gives life to a chimp, or to any other animals for that matter, has the capacity to discern between good and evil, to make moral choices. In Genesis, when God expelled Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden for eating the forbidden fruit, He said, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." That knowledge is what sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom, at least as I understand it.
(By the way, I am not a Bible literalist and I believe that much of the creation story and the story of Adam and Eve to be allegorical. I do believe that there are some important truths in it, though.)
Looks like your belief is just that, a belief. Science says chimps do have moral values.
All the things you criticize are legitimate criticisms because the concepts involved are the result of human vanity and hubris. All the Omnis are demanded by humans as a requirement for God to qualify as God. They have no other basis and are frequently self-contradictory and often in conflict with our experienced reality.
The barbaric and convoluted explanation of Christ is the result of primitive ignorance and the automatic assignment of responsibility to God for everything that happens, good or bad. If it is good, it is God's favor. If it is bad, it is God's wrath. They saw no other options and had to explain them in whatever convoluted fashion fit their primitive knowledge, understanding, and beliefs about God.
It all makes perfect sense... when we stop to consider that it was all made up by ancient ignorant iron age people in an attempt to understand what they had no means to explain and understand otherwise.
Why were they so ignorant? Because they were woefully short of such things as space telescopes, electron microscopes, and large hadron colliders, and the like, thousands of years ago.
It's amazing how access to actual observable knowledge can work to entirely rewrite make believe.
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I guess I'm just going to have to go after a couple of those advanced degrees. 
