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Well, "I'm" not "them," and I know that's what "they" said. I don't believe God can do anything, regardless of what anybody else believes. God cannot do what is not actually possible to be done, like creating a two-sided triangle, for instance.
A two sided triangle is a contradiction of meaning, because it is grammatically inconsistent. The God of the Bible is specifically said to be omnipotent and therefore infallible, and yet is also portrayed as having failed. Since this is a direct contradiction of concept, the Bible is revealed to be inconsistent and therefore untrustworthy.
Wikipedia
Internal consistency of the Bible
The study of inconsistencies in the Bible has a long history. In the 17th century, Spinoza considered the Bible to be "a book rich in contradictions". In the 18th century, Thomas Paine in The Age of Reason compiled many of the Bible's self-contradictions. And in 1860, William Henry Burr produced a list of 144 self-contradictions in the Bible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...y_of_the_Bible
If the Bible is inconsistent it is not trustworthy, and it cannot be considered an inerrant source of knowledge. Does it then become acceptable for each person to go ahead and interpret the Bible as each person chooses? Isn't that EXACTLY what has been happening within Christianity?
Google
There are more than 45,000 denominations globally. Followers of Jesus span the globe. But the global body of more than 2 billion Christians is separated into thousands of denominations. https://www.google.com/search?q=HOW+...ome&ie=UTF-8Is
Does this then free each person to construct a God in their own mind that serves to satisfy their own personal requirement of what it means to be a God/the gods? And isn't that exactly what has been done historically down through the ages? The question then becomes, after everyone has created the concept of a God/the gods in their own minds which serves to satisfy their own individual requirements, does that particular God/the gods have necessary existence?
Here is a partial list of historical creator Gods to consider. How many of them do you suppose have/had actual existence? Many of these Gods/gods were once extremely popular and had millions of devoted followers. Where did these Gods/gods go? The answer appears to be, they never existed to begin with!
And, again, how is any of this anything but yet a further example of the same old make it up and declare it to be true superstitious wishful thinking make believe that has been occurring since before the dawn of recorded history?
As Katzpur said, some things are just not in the realm of logical possibility, such as “creating” a contradiction, like a 2 sided triangle.
Jerome says (Ep. 22 ad Eustoch.): "Although God can do all things, He cannot make a thing that is corrupt not to have been corrupted."
Augustine says (Contra Faust. xxix, 5): "Whosoever says, If God is almighty, let Him make what is done as if it were not done, does not see that this is to say: If God is almighty let Him effect that what is true, by the very fact that it is true, be false".
The Philosopher says (Ethic. vi, 2): "Of this one thing alone is God deprived—namely, to make undone the things that have been done."
He made Jesus walk on water, rise up to heaven after he was crucified to death. Katz believes she will return (not clear to earth or elsewhere) embodied in a dead body turned to dust, because God can do this. What seems impossible in this realm to our normal intellect is apparently possible by this God.
How can mortals with their limited abilities KNOW what is possible for this God? Isnt that a failure of faith?
There is this concept you see called EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE which is based on observation and common experience. Observation and common experience is the basis of common sense. Is empirical evidence reliable? Well, does your cell phone actually work? When you flip a switch does your room fill with light? When you push a button does your TV produce full color high definition images?
nipped for space
Some deploy this against others but not themselves.
My question to you is what would it look like in atheism? Its really some atheist, but you know what I mean. I think.
No, not at all. I am saying that omnipotence and omniscience eliminate the possibility of making mistakes and failing to achieve an intended result.
The God of the Bible is also presented as having FAILED!
Genesis 6:
[6] And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
[7] And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
When God put the man and woman out of the Garden of Eden, He did not leave them without hope of return.
What I see in the word that you quoted is a turning from judgement to forgiveness as God said in Genesis 6:3; Then the Lord said, My Spirit will not contend with man forever for he is mortal; his days will be 120 years. Referring to an age of forgiveness.
Enoch who saw the wickedness of man and prophesied of the flood and gave the time it would happen. Methuselah lived 969 years and his name testified of the judgement to come for all those years, just as Noah building the Ark testified. Noah accepted God's judgement and did not consider himself to be above judgement. While the rest of the people lived as if they were above judgement. The same as the Satan "serpent" spoke in his beguiling lie of being above judgement out of one side of his mouth, while speaking a judgement on God out of the other side of his mouth.
The flood isn't some display of great power, nor did God take pleasure in that. What is carried along in Noah's Ark, is the seed of promise. The redeemer. Who does achieve fulfillment of God's word, in who God is well pleased, as he came out of the water.
Since this is a direct contradiction of concept, the Bible is revealed to be inconsistent and therefore untrustworthy.
Oh, I can definitely see inconsistencies in the Bible, so you're not going to get any arguments from me in that regard.
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Does this then free each person to construct a God in their own mind that serves to satisfy their own personal requirement of what it means to be a God/the gods?
Sure. I'm free to believe in God as I believe Him to be and you're free not to believe in Him at all. The main difference between the two of us seems to be that I couldn't care less whether you believe in Him or not, and you seem pretty determined to convince me not to.
No, not at all. I am saying that omnipotence and omniscience eliminate the possibility of making mistakes and failing to achieve an intended result. If you are satisfied that you got it right with respect to how you raised your children then congratulations. I too am satisfied with the way my children turned out. But of course "right" is an opinion. Others may differ in their evaluation. Others however are not omnipotent and omniscient either.
Just to be clear, this isn't about how we raised our kids or how they turned out, though I'm glad to say we are proud of the young adults they have become.
My point is that you assume something omnipotent and omniscience would necessarily choose to create beings who are not fallible. That and/or that by creating something that can be fallible is the fault of the creator. Not true unless the express purpose of God were to create infallible beings. I'm not sure that's anyone's version other than yours. Perhaps it is not the fault but the intention.
Of course, again, I'm an atheist, so all this is rather academic for me. Nothing but a fun interesting intellectual exercise of imaging what a god might be like. I just don't understand your argument that being God that is all-everything should necessarily mean a creator who doesn't want to create creatures that can make mistakes. That's all.
I'm not sure that's part of the definition of omnipotent or omniscience in any case...
Over time humans reasonably gain in knowledge. We humans are alone with respect to other Earthly creatures in our ability to retain that which we have learned, and to pass it on from generation to generation. From century to century even. We not only have complex language, we have reading and writing. We also have the ability to edit our accumulated store of knowledge as it becomes necessary.
As our understanding of the physical reality that we exist in has grown and changed, we naturally outgrow the make believe and misconceptions of the past. Because that make believe and misconception was derived from ignorance. And when that ignorance becomes apparent, what served as "knowledge" in the past loses its usefulness. Time to disregard and move on.
Agree.
Too bad there aren't enough people who recognize when ignorance becomes apparent, what loses its usefulness and when it is time to disregard and move on.
In order for mankind to be the "same god" as the God we worship, we'd have to physically merge with Him. I would describe mankind as God's "offspring" rather than as His "creations," and like the offspring of any species of animal, the infants grow up to resemble their parents. Kittens become full grown cats. Puppies become full grown dogs. Similarly, we are given the potential to grow, mature, and progress to the point where we can be like God, who is our spiritual Father. Notice, though, that I said we have the "potential" to become godlike. As C.S. Lewis pointed out, it's not a given, and we can prevent it from happening.
By the way, I don't often use the "omni-" words. They're too mystical for me to relate to. And I don't believe the ancient Christians (Jesus Christ's contemporaries) would have thought of God in the terms that the later Greek-educated Christians did.
Have we actually grown up to resemble anything like when we were created?
I'm hoping you believe in the theory of evolution and what we know about the first life forms that over millions of years have morphed into the beings we are today. All beings are nothing like when life first began on this planet.
As Katzpur said, some things are just not in the realm of logical possibility, such as “creating” a contradiction, like a 2 sided triangle.
Jerome says (Ep. 22 ad Eustoch.): "Although God can do all things, He cannot make a thing that is corrupt not to have been corrupted."
Augustine says (Contra Faust. xxix, 5): "Whosoever says, If God is almighty, let Him make what is done as if it were not done, does not see that this is to say: If God is almighty let Him effect that what is true, by the very fact that it is true, be false".
The Philosopher says (Ethic. vi, 2): "Of this one thing alone is God deprived—namely, to make undone the things that have been done."
Interesting to see how the realm of logical possibility is viewed from a critical thinking standpoint when it comes to some things, but not so much when it comes to other things. Other things like gods...
Have we actually grown up to resemble anything like when we were created?
Like when we were created? I believe we were created as completely innocent, so in that regard, no. I do believe that many of us have come to realize that the real reason we're even here is to learn to love and care about one another. And in that regard, I see us as moving forward, although very slowly.
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I'm hoping you believe in the theory of evolution and what we know about the first life forms that over millions of years have morphed into the beings we are today. All beings are nothing like when life first began on this planet.
Just saying...
I agree, but I'm not sure what your point is.
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