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I was thinking about this part of the post as I took Mr Yap for his walk, not because the use of 'scientism' is a sign of a false 'teacher' who simply dismisses what they do not like, but also because it is a typical example of those pretending to be spiritual and wise because they have a superficial knowledge because they have casually read a book. The first thing to understand is the misrepresentation and misuse of the Daoist concept of the ten thousand things.The second is that genuine Daoists would laugh at the above, because one of the core ideas of Daoism is to question your beliefs and experiences, as the story of Zhuang Zhou who dreamed he was a butterfly* shows. Rational inquiry is a major part of Daoism, which is why things like Daoist medicine is used, because it has been tested and proven to work.* or was he a butterfly who dreamed he was a man?
what's funny is the post above claiming to (a) know and speak for what "genuine Daosists" would do.
and (b) setting itself up as an arbiter to determine who or what is a "genuine Daoist"
and (c) entertaining the notion that there even is such a thing as a "genuine Daoist."
neither a nor b nor c listed above are rational.
it would make for a good thread on its own, to address these follow up questions raised by the post above: So tell us how do you decide what or who is a "genuine Daoist." And where in Taoist scripture, sacred text, teachings are you finding that this is taught. And what for you distinguishes "genuine Daoist" from "non-genuine Daoist." And why would you feel the need to invent such a label of "genuine Daoist" in the first place?
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-11-2023 at 08:23 AM..
what's funny is the post above claiming to (a) know and speak for what "genuine Daosists" would do.
and (b) setting itself up as an arbiter to determine who or what is a "genuine Daoist"
and (c) entertaining the notion that there even is such a thing as a "genuine Daoist."
neither a nor b nor c listed above are rational.
it would make for a good thread on its own, to address these follow up questions raised by the post above: So tell us how do you decide what or who is a "genuine Daoist." And where in Taoist scripture, sacred text, teachings are you finding that this is taught. And what for you distinguishes "genuine Daoist" from "non-genuine Daoist." And why would you feel the need to invent such a label of "genuine Daoist" in the first place?
Well, let's ask almost the same questions to christians:
How do you decide what or who is a "real christian"?
What for you distinguishes a "real christian" from "non-real christian."
Why would you feel the need to invent such a label of "real christian" in the first place?
what's funny is the post above claiming to (a) know and speak for what "genuine Daosists" would do.
and (b) setting itself up as an arbiter to determine who or what is a "genuine Daoist"
and (c) entertaining the notion that there even is such a thing as a "genuine Daoist."
neither a nor b nor c listed above are rational.
Your usual, ignorant, irrational, dismissal without evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
it would make for a good thread on its own, to address these follow up questions raised by the post above: So tell us how do you decide what or who is a "genuine Daoist."
Someone who actually practices and studies Daoism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
And where in Taoist scripture, sacred text, teachings are you finding that this is taught.
It is not taught in the scripture, it is taught in the history of Daoism, where many fake Daoist priests are known to have existed. My wife's Gung Fu teacher, a Chinese Daoist professor of Chinese religious history and philosophy has some frightening tales about their cures they sold, and the punishments they received when caught.
Or do Chinese Daoist professors of Chinese religious history and philosophy know nothing about Daoism.
And we have people like you once falsely asserting Daoism has a cosmic consciousness as the ultimate source, just as Myuen misrepresented chapter 42 of the Dao De Ching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
And what for you distinguishes "genuine Daoist" from "non-genuine Daoist."
A genuine Daoist is someone who actually practices and studies Daoism. A fake is one who does not. That you need this explaining to you is amusing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
And why would you feel the need to invent such a label of "genuine Daoist" in the first place?
Because it describes reality. But then I forgot, to you, every spiritual or religious snake oil salesman must be genuine because they are spiritual or religious.
I was thinking about this part of the post as I took Mr Yap for his walk, not because the use of 'scientism' is a sign of a false 'teacher' who simply dismisses what they do not like, but also because it is a typical example of those pretending to be spiritual and wise because they have a superficial knowledge because they have casually read a book.
The first thing to understand is the misrepresentation and misuse of the Daoist concept of the ten thousand things.
The second is that genuine Daoists would laugh at the above, because one of the core ideas of Daoism is to question your beliefs and experiences, as the story of Zhuang Zhou who dreamed he was a butterfly* shows. Rational inquiry is a major part of Daoism, which is why things like Daoist medicine is used, because it has been tested and proven to work.
* or was he a butterfly who dreamed he was a man?
Harry, please don't go there. Even the Chinese today don't understand ancient Chinese thought. Modern China is driven by western technology. A Japanese guy, I met in Tokyo, told me "you can't use a technology if you don't have the philosophy". The Chinese think like you do in the west these days.
Ancient Chinese thought is inaccessible in the English language.
Harry, please don't go there. Even the Chinese today don't understand ancient Chinese thought. Modern China is driven by western technology. A Japanese guy, I met in Tokyo, told me "you can't use a technology if you don't have the philosophy". The Chinese think like you do in the west these days.
Ancient Chinese thought is inaccessible in the English language.
No, the arguments are often still rational, especially when you look at other works than the Dao De Ching.
Also, my wife's Gung Fu teacher is a Chinese Daoist professor of Chinese religious history and philosophy.
But why warn me of the alleged dangers when you have no problem posting about Daosim?
Using rational arguments is absolutely shocking? I suppose you would rather get a spiritualist on the witness stand to get in touch with the victim and ask who did it? Or what about a ducking stool for the alleged murderer?
I have consistently objected to the death sentence when questioned by defense lawyers and prosecution attorneys in the presence of judges presiding on murder trials. The only discomfort I felt was the presence of the accused who looked guilty as hell to me in every case. Even that did not budge me into breaking the 6th Commandment: Thou shall not kill. It disqualified me from jury duty every time.
Only beasts could bring themselves to vote for the execution of the accused. Rational thinking robs us of our humanity. Of this I have no doubt. My only unresolved inner conflict is eating meat because it involved killing sentient animals. I have gone vegetarian before, and even felt it was a healthy dietary practice. Why I don't go back to it is not a mystery. It's my western culinary culture.
Only beasts could bring themselves to vote for the execution of the accused. Rational thinking robs us of our humanity. Of this I have no doubt.
Love this.
And what to make of those, the family of the victim, who want to watch a man being electrocuted? And what do we do with the people involved who executed an innocent man, which happens a lot.
I have consistently objected to the death sentence when questioned by defense lawyers and prosecution attorneys in the presence of judges presiding on murder trials. The only discomfort I felt was the presence of the accused who looked guilty as hell to me in every case. Even that did not budge me into breaking the 6th Commandment: Thou shall not kill. It disqualified me from jury duty every time.
Only beasts could bring themselves to vote for the execution of the accused. Rational thinking robs us of our humanity. Of this I have no doubt. My only unresolved inner conflict is eating meat because it involved killing sentient animals. I have gone vegetarian before, and even felt it was a healthy dietary practice. Why I don't go back to it is not a mystery. It's my western culinary culture.
The 6th commandment did not say you will not kill. It said that you will not murder. The Mosaic law included the death penalty for certain crimes. Even Jesus stated it was a commandment of God that 'He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death.'' - Mark 7:10. A rather severe, and silly, reason to put someone to death, but that was the Mosaic law for you.
I have no problem with the death penalty quite apart from the Bible and would in fact volunteer to perform the execution for certain criminals. Now what kind of beast am I? Hmmm . . .oh, I know . . .I'm a great ape. But then, so are you right along with the Chimpanzees, Gorilla's, Orangutans, and Bonobos, (and humans). Of course that's not what you meant but I thought I'd throw I'd it in anyway.
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