Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Where was what Jesus said when he was on the cross recorded? It was recorded in the Bible.
Where was Jesus' statement that it was the command of God that 'he who speaks evil of father and mother be put to death recorded? It was recorded in the Bible.
That doesn't mean that the Bible itself is the mind of Christ. It means that what Jesus thought and said, and taught is recorded in the Bible.
You can't imagine Jesus saying that it was the command of God that those who speak evil of father and mother were to be put to death (one of the commands of the Mosaic law [which Christianity is not under]) because you have a one dimensional view of Jesus and so you must cherry pick what you believe Jesus said according to the Bible and what he didn't actually say, meaning that you must think that someone else put those words into the mouth of Jesus.
And you must by now know that I am not a fundamentalist.
You see nothing contradictory about Jesus asking God to forgive our ancestors for the most savage and brutal treatment imaginable yet telling us God wants us to put people to death for merely "speaking evil ???? Do you even notice the inconsistent and contradictory things in the Bible????
You see nothing contradictory about Jesus asking God to forgive our ancestors for the most savage and brutal treatment imaginable yet telling us God wants us to put people to death for merely "speaking evil ???? Do you even notice the inconsistent and contradictory things in the Bible????
As I said, that command was part of the Mosaic law and does not apply to us. Jesus merely acknowledged the Mosaic law which was still in effect during Jesus' ministry.
Now how much, if any of the Mosaic law was actually given by God and how much actually originated with Moses, or other biblical writers who attributed those laws to God, is another matter. But then you still have the issue that Jesus did say that it was the command of God.
Of course I know that the Bible has contradictions but those contradictions are not contradictions just because you personally disagree with them. According to the Bible, Jesus came the first time to go to the cross and be judged for our sins and offer forgiveness. But when he comes again he will come as a judge. Two different aspects to God's overall plan biblically speaking which are carried out at different times. So there is no contradiction between those two different aspects of Jesus and two different phases of God's plan.
You don't want to accept that God is anything other than 'love.' I get that and I get that you will never believe anything other than that. I do not share that belief.
Your usual, ignorant, irrational, dismissal without evidence. Someone who actually practices and studies Daoism. It is not taught in the scripture, it is taught in the history of Daoism, where many fake Daoist priests are known to have existed. My wife's Gung Fu teacher, a Chinese Daoist professor of Chinese religious history and philosophy has some frightening tales about their cures they sold, and the punishments they received when caught. Or do Chinese Daoist professors of Chinese religious history and philosophy know nothing about Daoism. And we have people like you once falsely asserting Daoism has a cosmic consciousness as the ultimate source,
"The dao is broad and multifaceted, as indicated by the many interrelated meanings of the term. Accordingly, the concept has various interpretations and plays various roles within Daoist philosophy. In its most profound interpretation, the Cosmic Dao, or the Way of the Cosmos, it is the immanent and transcendent 'source' of the universe, spontaneously and incessantly generating the 'ten thousand things' (a metaphor for the world) and giving rise, in its constant fluctuation, to the complementary forces of yinyang, which make up all aspects and phenomena of life. The Cosmic Dao is 'imperceptible' and 'indiscernible,' in the sense of being indeterminate or not any particular thing; it is the void that latently contains all forms, entities, and forces of particular phenomena. "
Lao Tzu writes in the Tao Te Ching: "Tao produced the One. The One produced the two. The two produced the three. And the three produced the ten thousand things."
"In the beginning, there was an endless void, known as Wu Chi, or Tao. The Tao is a universal energy, from which all things emanate. From this vast cosmic universe, from Tao, the One emerges. As the One manifests in the world, it divides into two: the Yin and the Yang. This stage represents the emergence of duality/polarity out of the Unity of Tao. In Taoist cosmology, Qi is in constant transformation between its condensed material state and its dilute energetic state. From Yin and Yang emerges the five elements. From the constituent elements come the “ten-thousand things,†representing all of manifest existence, all of the objects, inhabitants, and phenomena of the world that we experience. Human beings, in the Taoist cosmology, are among the Ten Thousand Things. Another way of describing this process is to say that these stages represent the descent of energetic consciousness into physical form. The practice of Taoism, in general, is an attempt to perceive the presence and workings of the universal Tao in the Ten Thousand Things and to live in balanced accordance with it. "
just as Myuen misrepresented chapter 42 of the Dao De Ching. A genuine Daoist is someone who actually practices and studies Daoism. A fake is one who does not. That you need this explaining to you is amusing. Because it describes reality. But then I forgot, to you, every spiritual or religious snake oil salesman must be genuine because they are spiritual or religious.
but you yourself do not know whether someone studies and practices Taoism. Therefore you yourself can not make that determination. and among those who study and practice Taoism, no they would not all say this or all do that. because they do not all think, speak, act, laugh, or interpret as a monolith all in the same way. It is not rational and it is not accurate, to claim that "a genuine Daoist would laugh at ______."
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-11-2023 at 07:44 PM..
So you have no use for thinking and no use for intelligence. That explains a lot.
Of course, I have use for thinking for tying my shoelaces, throwing out the trash, and paying for groceries at the store. Intelligence is for something else. It's not at your beck and call like the intellect is for thinking.
As I said, that command was part of the Mosaic law and does not apply to us. Jesus merely acknowledged the Mosaic law which was still in effect during Jesus' ministry.
Now how much, if any of the Mosaic law was actually given by God and how much actually originated with Moses, or other biblical writers who attributed those laws to God, is another matter. But then you still have the issue that Jesus did say that it was the command of God.
Of course I know that the Bible has contradictions but those contradictions are not contradictions just because you personally disagree with them. According to the Bible, Jesus came the first time to go to the cross and be judged for our sins and offer forgiveness. But when he comes again he will come as a judge. Two different aspects to God's overall plan biblically speaking which are carried out at different times. So there is no contradiction between those two different aspects of Jesus and two different phases of God's plan.
You don't want to accept that God is anything other than 'love.' I get that and I get that you will never believe anything other than that. I do not share that belief.
I get that and understand it because you have not met Him. But since you are someone who has thought his way out of fundamentalism, I must ask you. You still seem to believe that God was angry with us and needed to be appeased or "paid" for whatever it was that so angered Him. What exactly do you think it was that would cause an Almighty God to curse His own creations and their descendants in perpetuity until Jesus could pay Him a ransom or whatever?
Your usual, ignorant, irrational, dismissal without evidence. Someone who actually practices and studies Daoism. It is not taught in the scripture, it is taught in the history of Daoism, where many fake Daoist priests are known to have existed. My wife's Gung Fu teacher, a Chinese Daoist professor of Chinese religious history and philosophy has some frightening tales about their cures they sold, and the punishments they received when caught. Or do Chinese Daoist professors of Chinese religious history and philosophy know nothing about Daoism. And we have people like you once falsely asserting Daoism has a cosmic consciousness as the ultimate source, just as Myuen misrepresented chapter 42 of the Dao De Ching. A genuine Daoist is someone who actually practices and studies Daoism. A fake is one who does not. That you need this explaining to you is amusing. Because it describes reality. But then I forgot, to you, every spiritual or religious snake oil salesman must be genuine because they are spiritual or religious.
the other thought that comes to mind in reading post above, is wondering how someone who does not believe that chi even exists, can claim to speak authoritatively about Taoism, or appoint themself as arbiter of what a "genuine Daoist" would or would not do.
"Central to Taoist worldview and practice is qi (chi). Qi is life-force, that which animates the forms of the world."
"Qi is the force that makes up and binds together all things in the universe."
It would be great to have a thread on Taoism.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-11-2023 at 09:08 PM..
the other thought that comes to mind in reading post above, is wondering how someone who does not believe that chi even exists, can claim to speak authoritatively about Taoism, or appoint themself as arbiter of what a "genuine Daoist" would or would not do.
"Central to Taoist worldview and practice is qi (chi). Qi is life-force, that which animates the forms of the world."
"Qi is the force that makes up and binds all things in the universe."
It would be great to have a thread on Taoism.
It is because the forum/aquarium has devolved into a childish self-righteous gathering place to argue others out of their worldview instead of an area of exploration.
It is because the forum/aquarium has devolved into a childish self-righteous gathering place to argue others out of their worldview instead of an area of exploration.
I don't agree at all. As an atheist I have ZERO expectation that any religionist will stop being a religionist based on anything they read on this forum. ZERO. ABSOLUTE ZERO.
I did not invoke the teaching of the Tao Te Ching. I was using the western translation to convey a message that you obviously could grasp.
Except you misrepresented what the 10000 things are. And you can not make the false claim that 'the Chinese today don't understand ancient Chinese thought' and then say you used a Western translation to explain something the Chinese can not understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myuen2
I hope you are not taking me on to debate classical Chinese thought. Invite your professor to join in. I would love to take him apart.
If only there were more Daoists here (classical Confucianism usually avoids religious ideas), it would make an interesting comparison with Buddhism. I too would like my wife's teacher to join in, but that is politically difficult as he lives in China.
Only beasts could bring themselves to vote for the execution of the accused. Rational thinking robs us of our humanity.
Why are you confusing death sentence with rational thought? Is that deliberate?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
