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This appeared in our Phoenix newspaper entitled "Why So Many People Are Leaving Churches". I appreciated that someone in the christian world is thinking about the errors of the current path of christianity and can admit that is one of the factors in the decline in church attendance. It's so nice to see a 'christian official' who talks about principles, rather than proving the unprovable.
This appeared in our Phoenix newspaper entitled "Why So Many People Are Leaving Churches". I appreciated that someone in the christian world is thinking about the errors of the current path of christianity and can admit that is one of the factors in the decline in church attendance. It's so nice to see a 'christian official' who talks about principles, rather than proving the unprovable.
While we can all appreciate the suggestion to focus on what binds us rather than divides us, to some extent this tends to confuse the issue of what is fact, truth, and what is not...
One thing of course is for all of us to join hands and simply live in peace. "Live and let live," and wouldn't it be nice if we could all somehow suspend our opinions and beliefs (about women's rights, gays, one religion vs another), and just get along? Of course. Most of us can do this I think, and simply enjoy a community picnic together on a nice day.
Sure, but I don't think this really changes our minds about what we strongly believe to be true and right. The things we disagree about that pretty much makes that peace between us impossible. Nice thought though...
While we can all appreciate the suggestion to focus on what binds us rather than divides us, to some extent this tends to confuse the issue of what is fact, truth, and what is not...
One thing of course is for all of us to join hands and simply live in peace. "Live and let live," and wouldn't it be nice if we could all somehow suspend our opinions and beliefs (about women's rights, gays, one religion vs another), and just get along? Of course. Most of us can do this I think, and simply enjoy a community picnic together on a nice day.
Sure, but I don't think this really changes our minds about what we strongly believe to be true and right. The things we disagree about that pretty much makes that peace between us impossible. Nice thought though...
Hmm, those who know me outside of here know that's my song. There are places where that does work, and every year on September 11, I republish on social media my blurb about one of the most famous places where that was the case until it was destroyed by people who saw us all as a "them".
Hmm, those who know me outside of here know that's my song. There are places where that does work, and every year on September 11, I republish on social media my blurb about one of the most famous places where that was the case until it was destroyed by people who saw us all as a "them".
But yeah, that's the goal.
Not sure what the "Hmm" is about, but needless to say that's a "song" many of us have appreciated and promoted for a long time now. Sadly with far too little progress...
Unfortunately, goals are all too often a far cry from reality, and all too often we might be focused too much on singing that song without really considering what stands in the way of making progress. It's hard to correct problems without properly recognizing what they are. Then too to apply the appropriate most effective corrective action.
All much easier said than done of course, or should I say easier sung than done?
Not sure what the "Hmm" is about, but needless to say that's a "song" many of us have appreciated and promoted for a long time now. Sadly with far too little progress...
Unfortunately, goals are all too often a far cry from reality, and all too often we might be focused too much on singing that song without really considering what stands in the way of making progress. It's hard to correct problems without properly recognizing what they are. Then too to apply the appropriate most effective corrective action.
All much easier said than done of course, or should I say easier sung than done?
While we can all appreciate the suggestion to focus on what binds us rather than divides us, to some extent this tends to confuse the issue of what is fact, truth, and what is not...
One thing of course is for all of us to join hands and simply live in peace. "Live and let live," and wouldn't it be nice if we could all somehow suspend our opinions and beliefs (about women's rights, gays, one religion vs another), and just get along? Of course. Most of us can do this I think, and simply enjoy a community picnic together on a nice day.
Sure, but I don't think this really changes our minds about what we strongly believe to be true and right. The things we disagree about that pretty much makes that peace between us impossible. Nice thought though...
Actually, you have the causal relationship backward. The confusion and discord reside in our tendency to consider as facts things that are merely beliefs that we cannot actually validate as facts. Unfortunately, most people presume their facts are validated to their satisfaction (few of us are involved in the actual discovery of facts).
Actually, you have the causal relationship backward. The confusion and discord reside in our tendency to consider as facts things that are merely beliefs that we cannot actually validate as facts. Unfortunately, most people presume their facts are validated to their satisfaction (few of us are involved in the actual discovery of facts).
Wrong...
I believe the earth is round. This is generally considered a fact. I believe we need oxygen to breath, and we now better understand what oxygen is. Another fact. We now understand what causes earthquakes, droughts, thunder and lightening. More facts, and these are really not beliefs. We now know these things. Nothing any of us are arguing about in any case. Nothing we might consider a source of controversy or division like so many of these other claims and beliefs made in this forum.
Your turn...
What examples do you have that are similarly benign in nature when it comes to facts and the validation of facts? Benign as in easy to recognize as fact. Your claims and beliefs versus these sorts of facts that I/we all know to be true? Examples you can fairly identify as facts in the same way. Like we all do as a rule. Of course you believe your simple say so should be sufficient, but why so? How so?
I don't have the problem you have to justify my beliefs along these lines. None.
Sorry. Sure seems to me it is you that has this causal relationship backwards. At best.
I believe the earth is round. This is generally considered a fact. I believe we need oxygen to breath, and we now better understand what oxygen is. Another fact. We now understand what causes earthquakes, droughts, thunder and lightening. More facts, and these are really not beliefs. We now know these things. Nothing any of us are arguing about in any case. Nothing we might consider a source of controversy or division like so many of these other claims and beliefs made in this forum.
Your turn...
There is no confusion or discord over those facts. They play no role in the controversies raised in the R&S fora. It is those things that cannot BE validated as fact but are assumed to be that cause the discord such as the "fact" that God does not exist and has to somehow be proven to exist. That is NOT a fact of our Reality because our Reality itself could BE God. To assume it is fact until proven otherwise is completely unwarranted.
I think what might help is to not have a one-size-fits-all mass or service. The last couple of times I attended a service, the same topics were being discussed that I heard as a child. Where is the evidence for growth? One church was Catholic and the other was called Calvary Chapel.
The topics that religious leaders cover can be complex and probably need to be a bit more structured. Of course, I am not advocating a k-12 school type structure because I would've been stuck in 1st grade for a long time. To be a bit more serious, it is in our culture to not embarrass people so putting people at different levels of spiritual growth is out of the question.
There is no confusion or discord over those facts. They play no role in the controversies raised in the R&S fora. It is those things that cannot BE validated as fact but are assumed to be that cause the discord such as the "fact" that God does not exist and has to somehow be proven to exist. That is NOT a fact of our Reality because our Reality itself could BE God. To assume it is fact until proven otherwise is completely unwarranted.
I just finished addressing this sort of comment in another thread, so I'll leave this one be here.
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