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I was asking Kathryn why she bothers with praying to a god when she admitted that god isn't responsible for the changes prayer does (or doesn't) bring to our lives.
and she said this #191
Quote:
Personally, I pray (and not often enough probably) for wisdom and guidance so I know what needs to be done and am not second guessing my own actions.
Hmmm. Hang around here long enough … yeah it happens. That is the very goal of some posters who have declared such intentions. They are not here anymore but their minions are.
Nope, sorry - I just will not get riled up or triggered. I mean, I've been around this forum for many, many years and it just doesn't get to me.
I was asking Kathryn why she bothers with praying to a god when she admitted that god isn't responsible for the changes prayer does (or doesn't) bring to our lives.
Maybe she likes God and likes talking to Him.
Presumably you are grown and no longer dependent on your parents. Why do you bother talking to them, then?
Why not simply meditate? It does the same thing as prayer. It just dispenses with the idea of a god handing out blessings - or not - like someone passing candy at Halloween.
It's not a matter of me bothering with God - I believe that God exists, so since He does exist, it's not a matter of me bothering or not bothering with Him.
And no, I don't personally believe that simply meditating does the same thing as prayer. But you do what you think you need to do what you believe in.
Presumably you are grown and no longer dependent on your parents. Why do you bother talking to them, then?
Because my parents actually talk back to me in a real voice - not one in my head. My parents don't always agree with me, they give real advice, and can discuss matters pertaining to the real world.
My parents can hug me, they laugh with me, I can go do things with my parents so that we have shared experiences and shared memories which strengthens our bond ...
And all the rest of it. God will never sit next to me at the movies nor will he and I talk about it as we leave the theater. We'll never truly share a roadtrip - like my mom and I went to Hawaii for two weeks at the end of August. My mom was next to me on the plane. God wasn't. My mother and I can talk about our trip. We have those memories in common. God isn't going to initiate a conversation with me. God will never come over to my house with a six pack on a balmy August evening. He will never put up his feet as we sit on the front porch, drinking just enough to lower inhibitions, and then talk in that deep and special way close friends do. He won't stare off at the stars as they fade into view as that August evening turns into night. He won't laugh with me or share an inside joke. He won't express to me his worries and fears or what he wants from life - and the sorrows over the things he never received. The bottom line is that god cannot and will never RELATE to me in any way that matters. Never.
No ... god can never ever compare to a real person be it my parents, a good friend, or even a complete stranger ringing up my groceries at the store.
I really have no idea why you people seem so opposed to my question - especially since I'm sure Kathryn can answer for herself. As someone said about minions, right now, you guys are defining what being a minion actually is.
First as a human, I'm sorry you lost your beloved! It is a monumental thing. The greater the grief, the greater the testament of the love.
Second, as an atheist, but former believer, your cited purpose in prayer is the best response to the OP so far, IMO. Taking the time to quiet your surroundings and searching for direction prior to taking action, (rather than in lieu of it, as so often happens), is perfectly sound. As a non-believer, naturally I assume it to be sourced in more of an emotional & mental effort, whereas a believer feels there is a spiritual component, regardless the result is positive, healthy, and effective. Great response.
I have another atheist friend that will often respond to people and say "I'm praying for you" because he simply wants to extend a sentiment of care to others, in a language THEY relate to. It's less about the belief in a god, than it is about caring for someone that is hurting. This same person has told me that he (also a former believer) will still pray at times, not for a second because he believes god exists or will respond, but rather because it is a way of quieting himself, that he is extremely familiar with, a residual artifact of his journey through life.
Third, as an atheist, I frequently consider that the day that I loose my spouse or she me, is in the windshield, and having confidence that will be the last we see of each other, drives me to make more frequent, deliberate effort to seize the moments as they happen, and to make as many happen, as can reasonably be done.
Sounds like you and your wife enjoy a very loving relationship.
I am so, so grateful that the very last thing my husband and I said to each other was "I love you." Like you, I believe in living with no regrets. Period. Thankfully my husband felt the same way. If we wanted to say something, we did. I mean, saying "I love you" was just the way we always got off the phone - but we always meant it and we meant it when we said it for the last time to each other.
Thanks for your insight and kind words, by the way!
I was asking Kathryn why she bothers with praying to a god when she admitted that god isn't responsible for the changes prayer does (or doesn't) bring to our lives.
No - I didn't say that God isn't responsible for the changes prayer does or doesn't bring to our lives. I said I don't PETITION God with requests. So I didn't "admit" anything to you or anyone else.
However, God does know what I want already and sometimes I do say what I want, and I always preface it with "God, you know my heart, so you know what I want and I don't mind asking for it, because I am your child and I'm talking with you - but please give me the wisdom and grace to accept YOUR will in my life." (His will may also be whatever it is I'm asking for, for the record.)
To clarify, I believe that God is responsible for for the changes in my heart (which is in my life) because I believe that whenever we ask God for wisdom, He gives it to us.
Because my parents actually talk back to me in a real voice - not one in my head. My parents don't always agree with me, they give real advice, and can discuss matters pertaining to the real world.
My parents can hug me, they laugh with me, I can go do things with my parents so that we have shared experiences and shared memories which strengthens our bond ...
And all the rest of it. God will never sit next to me at the movies nor will he and I talk about it as we leave the theater. We'll never truly share a roadtrip - like my mom and I went to Hawaii for two weeks at the end of August. My mom was next to me on the plane. God wasn't. My mother and I can talk about our trip. We have those memories in common. God isn't going to initiate a conversation with me. God will never come over to my house with a six pack on a balmy August evening. He will never put up his feet as we sit on the front porch, drinking just enough to lower inhibitions, and then talk in that deep and special way close friends do. He won't stare off at the stars as they fade into view as that August evening turns into night. He won't laugh with me or share an inside joke. He won't express to me his worries and fears or what he wants from life - and the sorrows over the things he never received.
No ... god can never ever compare to a real person be it my parents, a good friend, or even a complete stranger wringing up my groceries at the store.
I really have no idea why you people seem so opposed to my question - especially since I'm sure Kathryn can answer for herself. As someone said about minions, right now, you guys are defining what being a minion actually is.
No need to get so defensive. No one is accusing you of anything.
The answer to your question just seemed pretty simple to me, is all. If you like someone, you talk to them. Simple as that.
It's not a matter of me bothering with God - I believe that God exists, so since He does exist, it's not a matter of me bothering or not bothering with Him.
And no, I don't personally believe that simply meditating does the same thing as prayer. But you do what you think you need to do what you believe in.
Thank you for answering.
I can believe that A god exists - but nothing at this point will ever convince me that the Biblegod exists. There was a time when I used to pray. It never did anything for me.
As such, it stands to reason that talking to a god is no better than relaxing in front of a candle flame. But like you said, each to our own.
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