Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have to wonder about someone who makes such a great ongoing effort to complain about requests related to justifying opinions and beliefs. Reminds me a bit of that scene in that movie where the demand is made loud and clear; "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"
Used to scare me as a kid. Of course we all know what happened after that...
Not just a request...but requests again, and again, and again, and again...even tens of thousands of times!
I entreat all the Abrahamic Religion Adherents to pray for you...that you repent & are redeemed so you don't end up in Hell, weeping, wailing, and gnashing your teeth for all of eternity.
Please help.
One great thing about Jews is that they never proselytize to others or ask them to convert to Judaism. Any converts come of their own volition and are, in fact, discouraged from doing so.
I'll pick on Buddhism. There are those who will say that the text of the Pali Canon, or the Tipitaka, include the exact words of Buddha. But most Buddhists realize and admit that no matter how hard they may have tried, that over something like 300 years it would be impossible for every word to remain extant. In reality, his teachings were first 'recollected' immediately after his death. "Recollected" is an important word here.
Monks doing the best they could at remembering, because no one had kept written records when Buddha had originally made his statements. Then, as time went by, not only would monks pass on and on a story -- and we've all played that parlor game -- analysis of the scriptures also took place, further 'corrupting' whatever the original sentences were. And then it all got translated into various languages, further corrupting the original words. And all this happened over hundreds of years. I would say that the best we can hope for are that what we read today are the gist or essence of what Buddha said.
And it's no different for christianity.
But here, once again, we have christians trying to prove the unprovable instead of discussing the teaching itself. Do I think that the words of the Sermon On The Mount are the exact words of Jesus. Not at all. But I can respect the wisdom of the teachings, without worrying about every word and comma. Same for Buddhism.
Good luck with all that...
It's also always interesting to me to see essentially three types of religious people. There are those who insist that proof of God is all around us, so yes. The existence of God can be proven. Then there are those who insist that proof of God is not possible, but a god exists, and we simply must have faith about this. Finally there are those who have had some sort of personal experience with God, so they just know. I suppose there are other types of religious people, but it's always interesting to me how confident religious people can be whether they are type A, B or C. Confident while for me neither perspective works for all practical purposes.
I'd add not for me, but who needs that additional clarification?
I'm sure that experiencing God would work for me, but so far that's not happened. Not since I was a lad anyway...
I wasn't missing anything or searching for anything (spiritual) or had any tragedy when I was converted (just sharing my experience and do concur that usually that is the case that there's a search for something going on). Actually I was completely happy where I was in life (except for where I lived since I hated Nevada); I loved the research I was doing, my job was awesome, I was so satisfied to be living as the gender I felt that I truly was. The only reason I looked into religion was to know more about my historical research character since he was a devout Presbyterian and I didn't know hardly anything about it.
Right, thanks, but I was asking the person who started this thread, because they alluded to something missing. A need to search for something else, more. I'm still curious what that is. The source of that feeling that I don't think I've ever known. I've known the want to achieve whatever I could in life; family wise, career wise, experience wise, education wise, wisdom wise...
Whatever to make the most of my life, but I've never had that sense of searching for something or needing something spiritual. Though I know there are more than a few sources that bring on that feeling as already touched upon, I'm curious to better understand the OP and/or other people who have that sense of needing something else. Something more.
I'll give it a shot, hope this makes some sense. It won't be overly philosophical or anything simply because I'm not capable of that Just my 2 cents worth.
To start with, no serious hardships on my part. No looking for answers to hard questions , I tend to go through life with a sense of humor, not worried too much about the "big" questions.
By missing, I mean a number of things in combination, not one main thing. I became interested in Zen Buddhism long before I walked away from the church, weirdly through my love of mountains*, but while I liked parts of it I never gave it much serious consideration later because while I found it intellectually interesting, I also found it dry and sterile in so many ways. As I moved into a sort of state of agnosticism, I began to get the same feeling. No.....vivaciousness, for lack of a better word. I had also previously been exposed to the concept of a state of Oneness that goes beyond your description of it, if I understand you correctly. Originally it entered my awareness as what is called non duality. Not-two. There is no "I", only the perception of an I , that sees itself as a separate being from all the other Is . This immediately struck a chord with me, because it just made sense. I have always been a huge lover of astronomy and astrophysics, and in immersing oneself in that you get exposed to the concept that everything in the universe is just different shapes of the same underlying energy. At some point the thought occurred that what is reality on the physical plane might also be true on the spiritual plane, and things just clicked into place in my head. Ever since being exposed to Zen, and the concept of satori and Awareness, I have carried that around as an ideal. I never really wondered and imagined what a heaven would be like, but I wondered and imagined what it would be like to experience this Awareness that everything in the universe is united in this non dualistic way of not-twoness. To be the wave aware of the ocean, instead of thinking myself as one wave separate from every other wave, just a bunch of separate waves with nothing in common. Part of this missing feeling was this wondering what this level of life would be like, to go through life being aware you are the ocean, and not just the one wave. When I discovered Druidry the not-twoness was , IMO, better defined as Oneness, although not-twoness does explain certain aspects better.
As I got back more into camping and being deep in the woods surrounded by nature, this feeling increased. I discovered others had these sorts of feelings in nature also. I decided that if there was something to this Awareness , and I didnt attempt to see for myself , then I would be missing out on something. And since my path to explore this is through a love of nature, making myself more aware of nature and the universe, through "forest bathing" as the Japanese call it, through attempting to become one spiritually with nature and the universe, through reverence and awe of what I can learn through astronomy, IF it turns out there is nothing more than the purely physical, I have lost nothing, wasted no time on irrelevant pursuits, and loved every minute of it.
Not a bad deal
* Fondness of mountains led to researching and reading about the worlds mountains, including the Himalayas. They led to the Tibetan and Bhutan styles of Buddhism, which led to Zen Buddhism. Weird path, I know.
Thanks. I appreciate all you explain and the effort. Still, I'm not quite sure I can tell what was "missing?"
I can understand the further appreciation of whatever you got into. Most certainly including the mountains, but my appreciation of the mountains (and the redwoods in them around here), also the ocean, nature, has never come from a sense that something was missing. I've enjoyed the increased pleasures that come from immersing myself in all that nature has to offer, but I've never done so as a result of feeling anything was "missing."
Sorry if I've missed your answer more specifically or if you don't care to bother further, but I wonder if there might be a word to more simply describe what you were missing. Also, does that feeling no longer exist for you? Did you find what you were missing?
"Forest bathing." I like it.
I've heard it called getting "naturally stoned." Or "environmentally stoned." "High on nature."
Interesting that on the one hand you write, "I am sure that some people do return to their faith after a tragedy or in search of something to fill an emotional blow or void. It just wasn't my experience."
Yet you also start by explaining, "And interestingly enough, when I lost my husband, I told my daughter "OK, I'm returning to the Catholic Church," and I did so"
Again, "whatever works" as I always say, and I'm not arguing either. Only to note that this relationship of pain and suffering is very commonly part of the story when it comes to people who turn to religion for purposes of dealing with such pain and suffering.
Of course where, how and when we find comfort is a personal thing, and we all follow our own internal compass when it comes to seeking "shelter from the storm." I think we all tend to "read" into what happens around us in ways that resonate with us. Whether it is that one song that happens to come on at just the right time. Who calls at just the right moment and says just the right thing. Coincidence? Serendipity? Other?
Hard to know, but always nice when it happens! No doubt.
.
If I'm remembering correctly, I think Kathryn was involved in a church with her husband, but it was a Protestant one. I think she was more familiar with the Catholic church so when he passed away she went back to the church she wanted to be at.
I may have that wrong so of course correct me if so, KA.
I just reread the post you quoted and I see she explains it. Just the way you quoted her post made it seem like she returned to the Catholic church out of something that was missing in her life, when I don't read it that way. I read it that that's the church she would have been at if she hadn't met her husband and she just wanted to go back to it after he passed away. It just seemed as though you sensed a sort of disparity in her post and I don't see that in it.
One great thing about Jews is that they never proselytize to others or ask them to convert to Judaism. Any converts come of their own volition and are, in fact, discouraged from doing so.
True, but if I'm not mistaken, if you're mother is Jewish, then according to Judaism, you are Jewish whether you believe in Judaism or not. Whether you consider yourself Jewish or not. I'm not sure of any other religion that works that way, but with rules like that, who needs converts? Maybe they are not converts, but you have automatic induction into Judaism like no other religion. It's more about blood line rather than converts in any case. No doubt. Hard to convert to a religion that claims you are Jewish if your mother is Jewish. My mother is not Jewish, so I'm not really feeling the love if you know what I mean. Feels more like a closed club to me...
Not just a request...but requests again, and again, and again, and again...even tens of thousands of times!
I entreat all the Abrahamic Religion Adherents to pray for you...that you repent & are redeemed so you don't end up in Hell, weeping, wailing, and gnashing your teeth for all of eternity.
Please help.
You trying to scare me again like the Wizard of Oz did when I was a kid? With all that fire and noise and hidden behind the curtain? I'm not that young anymore...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Just my 2 cents worth.
