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A big stumbling block to understanding is our belief or conviction we can understand It the way we understand things. A bigger one is we are That which we seek and we just look in all the wrong places. The Tenth Man.
Normally an insult like this is lodged in my direction, but this sort of rhetoric is what really tends to draw all of us down into the gutter where all too many of these threads go to die. If one can't explain themselves here without these comments like "science is your religion" (science is not a religion), or "dogma of science," then this thread is also doomed.
I'd hate to see that happen too...
Dont worry, the thread is fine. It will end when it ends. Nobody is in the gutter. Yet. Some people, particularly those who are not scientists, do hold Science as if it is religion. There is very little difference in the ideologies, and awe, between Scientism and some religions. True Scientists don't have such problems.
Normally an insult like this is lodged in my direction, but this sort of rhetoric is what really tends to draw all of us down into the gutter where all too many of these threads go to die. If one can't explain themselves here without these comments like "science is your religion" (science is not a religion), or "dogma of science," then this thread is also doomed.
I agree, it is a red flag that the user has nothing of value to add to the conversation.
That earth is flat was truth until it became a lie. That is why I am leery of any Universal Truths. We have facts that are facts for now, until something new is discovered. That is how WE roll. Science has proved that that is always a safe place to be.
Personal truth need never be confronted. Why should the US group bother about it? This is what I do not understand. As long as it does not infringe on my rights provided by the State why should I care?
Stay with me here. This is important to better understand...
That the earth is round and not flat has ALWAYS been a universal truth ever since the earth coalesced into the planet it became. Round and not flat. Fact. Even before there was any US to wonder about such a thing. Universal truths are not dependent on what you, me or anyone thinks. They exist. They are facts, for us to either come to recognize or not.
Now if you want to suggest the earth being round and not flat is NOT a universal truth, then again I think we'll have to walk a different mental path from here. I can't walk that one and be serious...
Well I don't know who those people are or what their reason is. So If you are going to refer to people invisible to me I have to go with facts on the ground. You should take it up with THOSE people, no?
Sorry if we don't agree about this either, but I'm more of the opinion that if a piece of advice or suggestion or word of caution does not apply to you, then simply leave it for those for whom it does. On the one hand we're not really supposed to use names after all, and on the other hand if anyone reading this thread doesn't think the word of caution doesn't apply to some people participating in this forum, they've got to be very new to this forum. Enough so that I'm inclined to reiterate...
"and perhaps a word of caution to everyone about the "inner world" of anyone else. Just because someone doesn't go on like others about a "spiritual journey" does not mean their "inner world" is any less active in terms of thoughts, feelings, beliefs and awareness."
What is clear is that it is quite possible you are wasting your time. I like hearing Mystic's thoughts.
Thought does cross my mind. Especially when it comes to reading thoughts as if they are truths and not bothering with those sorts of distinctions. I like reading Mystic's thoughts as well BTW, but I do more than just read them. Perhaps my problem and also a waste of time, but I can't help myself when it comes to my way in these regards. Sorry.
Dont worry, the thread is fine. It will end when it ends. Nobody is in the gutter. Yet. Some people, particularly those who are not scientists, do hold Science as if it is religion. There is very little difference in the ideologies, and awe, between Scientism and some religions. True Scientists don't have such problems.
I'm with the true scientists in terms of where I'm coming from. Not so much with those who tend to throw the true scientists under the bus of "scientism" and trying to suggest science is some sort of religion. The only people I know who do that are NOT the people who lean more favorably toward what science really is and what it can do for us. I never describe the scientific method as scientism, for example, and I am forever pointing out that SCIENCE IS NOT A RELIGION.
This sort of distinction should also not be necessary in a forum or thread like this one. Yet...
Very coincidentally, and I mean from completely "out of the blue" to the point of what I'm sure will get a few of you to wondering, I just this morning was sent this video by someone close to me who is on the advisory committee of this organization...
Semantics, yes. A common issue, but more problematical is this ongoing confusion that comes from expressing opinion as if it is a universal truth. Opinion presented as if somehow outside the purview of the sort of facts, reason, and logic that makes something a universal truth.
I have not demanded that my views be accepted as universal truth, LearnMe. But that does not preclude me from being convinced that they are based on my experiences, my knowledge, and my extrapolations from science that make them entirely plausible if not yet validated or validatable. That in no way precludes you from rejecting them.
Very coincidentally, and I mean from completely "out of the blue" to the point of what I'm sure will get a few of you to wondering, I just this morning was sent this video by someone close to me who is on the advisory committee of this organization...
Yet another short take about the same sort of thing I hope you will also appreciate...
Something else Jon brings up in another part is what he called resting in awareness. It's a meditation "technique" also referred to as choiceless awareness, do-nothing meditation, Shikantaza and probably other names. Prior to this I only practiced mindfulness and specifically the Vipassana technique Samatha/calm abiding. I highly recommend effortless meditation. From my perspective it can be a game changer (it was for me).
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