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the point urkoz made (regarding the "sixth attribute") is that it can't be observed.
therefore science can't observe it.
there is nothing "irrational" or "mumbo jumbo" about that, it is quite simple and straightforward.
and if you're going to label paths of religion and spirituality which you don't understand or that you disagree with as "irrational mumbo jumbo" then that label fairly and squarely applies to your own ideas as well, and firmly places your ideas on that category.
I am consenting to this.
Picking "science" to learn an absolutely non scientific object of interest is like picking fish trap to catch a condor, hovering miles up in the air.
Though, there IS different "science". One, that deals only with things, that "normal science" can't learn, by its nature of not being capable to. When you find that science, Mystic, all of your questions will be answered.
Alas, there is another way. If you concentrate The Light of Intelligence into a point, on the subject of your interest, entire truth about it will be revealed to you instantly. No need for any scientific crutches, my friend. Go straight to the source.
I am consenting to this.
Picking "science" to learn an absolutely non scientific object of interest is like picking fish trap to catch a condor, hovering miles up in the air.
Though, there IS different "science". One, that deals only with things, that "normal science" can't learn, by its nature of not being capable to. When you find that science, Mystic, all of your questions will be answered.
Alas, there is another way. If you concentrate The Light of Intelligence into a point, on the subject of your interest, entire truth about it will be revealed to you instantly. No need for any scientific crutches, my friend. Go straight to the source.
That is why I resorted to science as a surrogate observer of the phenomenon of Consciousness to see what correspondence there might be in science with the phenomenon I encountered. It is through science that I perceive the sixth attribute and how it can conceivably and plausibly manifest as me and you.
Here's the thing.
Can you perceive, what is inside the black hole?
No, as nothing is coming out of it.
Your answer, if you want to follow the route, you consider, is beyond the even horizon for science.
Again, I'll circle back to the sixth attribute. EVERYTHING IS CONSCIOUSNESS. You agree with that. Logically, how can everything, that is Consciousness, learn Consciousness? That includes science.
You do understand, what I am saying? You can't turn yourself inside out, to observe yourself. Neither can science, being Consciousness, turn itself inside out, to observe Consciousness.
Science can only observe surfaces. All scientific tools are only extensions or enhancements to human senses and catered to refer their findings into the forms, human senses can sense. And, that is surfaces. Science can only create a duality, to observe and that duality will be not true, as it will only creation of a human mind, catered for human mind.
The ONLY way one can learn Consciousness is by becoming Consciousness. Everything else is imagination of the body-mind.
As OSHO once said, if you can concentrate on a second hand of a watch for ONE MINUTE, I'll make you a Buddha.
For starters, try that, Dear Tzaphkiel. Pure concentration on the second hand. Just for one minute. Nothing else, but that hand. It's a very short time. Try it. Not a thought, emotion, itch, sneeze, fart, NOTHING but pure concentration on that hand. Circle back, when you accomplish that. Then, we can talk about concentrating The Light on point of interest.
Here's the thing.
Can you perceive, what is inside the black hole?
No, as nothing is coming out of it.
Your answer, if you want to follow the route, you consider, is beyond the even horizon for science.
Again, I'll circle back to the sixth attribute. EVERYTHING IS CONSCIOUSNESS. You agree with that. Logically, how can everything, that is Consciousness, learn Consciousness? That includes science.
You do understand, what I am saying? You can't turn yourself inside out, to observe yourself. Neither can science, being Consciousness, turn itself inside out, to observe Consciousness.
Science can only observe surfaces. All scientific tools are only extensions or enhancements to human senses and catered to refer their findings into the forms, human senses can sense. And, that is surfaces. Science can only create a duality, to observe and that duality will be not true, as it will only creation of a human mind, catered for human mind.
The ONLY way one can learn Consciousness is by becoming Consciousness. Everything else is imagination of the body-mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz
I am consenting to this.
Picking "science" to learn an absolutely non scientific object of interest is like picking fish trap to catch a condor, hovering miles up in the air.
Though, there IS different "science". One, that deals only with things, that "normal science" can't learn, by its nature of not being capable to. When you find that science, Mystic, all of your questions will be answered.
Alas, there is another way. If you concentrate The Light of Intelligence into a point, on the subject of your interest, entire truth about it will be revealed to you instantly. No need for any scientific crutches, my friend. Go straight to the source.
What you are missing is the fact that I BECAME the Oneness you are talking about and it WAS revealed to me instantly. It instantly erased my atheism. That is what sent me on my odyssey of science to try to convince my intellect that it made sense and I am not insane. The "science crutches" were to satisfy my intellect of its sanity. It also convinced me that the God version of the Oneness (as opposed to the Advaitic version) is the true one.
Here's the thing.
Can you perceive, what is inside the black hole?
No, as nothing is coming out of it.
Your answer, if you want to follow the route, you consider, is beyond the even horizon for science.
Again, I'll circle back to the sixth attribute. EVERYTHING IS CONSCIOUSNESS. You agree with that. Logically, how can everything, that is Consciousness, learn Consciousness? That includes science.
You do understand, what I am saying? You can't turn yourself inside out, to observe yourself. Neither can science, being Consciousness, turn itself inside out, to observe Consciousness.
Science can only observe surfaces. All scientific tools are only extensions or enhancements to human senses and catered to refer their findings into the forms, human senses can sense. And, that is surfaces. Science can only create a duality, to observe and that duality will be not true, as it will only creation of a human mind, catered for human mind.
The ONLY way one can learn Consciousness is by becoming Consciousness. Everything else is imagination of the body-mind.
I don't disagree with any of this. The science served a different purpose as I said, but it also supports and confirms the God version of the Oneness, as opposed to the Advaitic version.
I don't disagree with any of this. The science served a different purpose as I said, but it also supports and confirms the God version of the Oneness, as opposed to the Advaitic version.
bold above = example of dogma
Oneness is not proprietary. Post above is like someone who likes opera saying "science confirms and supports the opera version of music, but not the jazz or Celtic or bluegrass version of music."
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-04-2021 at 11:27 PM..
What you are missing is the fact that I BECAME the Oneness you are talking about and it WAS revealed to me instantly. It instantly erased my atheism. That is what sent me on my odyssey of scienceto try to convince my intellect that it made sense and I am not insane. The "science crutches" were to satisfy my intellect of its sanity. It also convinced me that the God version of the Oneness (as opposed to the Advaitic version) is the true one.
bold above then speaks to holding a belief that if science can't explain something then it is "insanity."
a belief that if the intellect can't make sense of something, then the person is "insane."
hopefully one day you will be able to recognize the ways that is a crippling belief.
if not this life time, then the next one.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-04-2021 at 11:53 PM..
I am afraid this query needs clarification.
If it relates to the second video, suffering relates to mental anguish due to any number of reasons. Vedantic philosophy teaches one to view the anguish one suffers from from a different perspective than what we usually view suffering - a personal affront, injury; something that has to be resolved right now; that there is a cure that must be got. It creates a psychic distance that helps bear what needs to be borne.
Personally, studying Advaita deeply has itself been a process to understand my anguish, bear it, live with uncertainty with patience. That brings relief from fear, a clarity in my thinking, a certain peace, and capacity to relate and give support to others. I do feel a difference in myself and the effect of that on others. I am a happier person.
I have not got to the second video yet. I'm not sure I really should given all I'm still pondering about the first one...
I think I got this right. In the first video the swami explains that "When we discover that our consciousness is limitless and fundamentally divine, you realize that nothing on earth can actually threaten you. Harm you or make you suffer in any manner. In this way Vedanta teachings can lead you to be completely free from suffering."
I understand what you explain about the personal effort to understand one's own suffering and to do whatever works for us to mitigate that suffering. No matter what we might call that effort, but the suggestion anyone can "be completely free from suffering" makes me wonder to what extent that's really possible, for anyone.
Here's the thing.
Can you perceive, what is inside the black hole?
No, as nothing is coming out of it.
Your answer, if you want to follow the route, you consider, is beyond the even horizon for science.
Again, I'll circle back to the sixth attribute. EVERYTHING IS CONSCIOUSNESS. You agree with that. Logically, how can everything, that is Consciousness, learn Consciousness? That includes science.
You do understand, what I am saying? You can't turn yourself inside out, to observe yourself. Neither can science, being Consciousness, turn itself inside out, to observe Consciousness.
Science can only observe surfaces. All scientific tools are only extensions or enhancements to human senses and catered to refer their findings into the forms, human senses can sense. And, that is surfaces. Science can only create a duality, to observe and that duality will be not true, as it will only creation of a human mind, catered for human mind.
The ONLY way one can learn Consciousness is by becoming Consciousness. Everything else is imagination of the body-mind.
This. Nice, Ukrkoz
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