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Old 01-19-2022, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,815 posts, read 24,321,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
The truth is the truth regardless whether we believe it or not, yes
But the truth is irrelevant to believers, since there is a placebo effect going on.
What matters is what they believe the truth is, that enhances their lives, not the actual truth.
And, who knows what the truth is anyway, for the most part?
(I probably should have written this on your other thread about the truth.)




For believers yes.
As long as what they believe harms nobody else, then I say go for it.
Hmmmmm.'

The two statements that I highlighted...when I read the first statement, I thought of the second statement...before I actually read it.

I can believe in the placebo effect in regard to religious-ness.

On a large scale, I can look at a country like Thailand, where there is freedom of religion, but where there is not equality of treatment as a result of religion. Buddhism dominates, and it reaches deep into Thai life. In Malaysia it's almost a reverse. There's freedom of religion there, too. But Muslims have a distinct advantage (bumiputera, which is not exactly religious by definition, but turns out to be religious in practice). It was quite interesting when I was there when I was chatted up while out and about by both several Indians and a couple of Chinese, who brought up the issue and how they are treated as second class citizens. The problem is not always what's in the law, but is sometimes about how deeply religion becomes entrenched in the culture (aka, government). I used to shudder when I would see Buddhist monks in Thailand blessing generals, tanks, and weapons.
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Old 01-19-2022, 02:10 PM
 
3,288 posts, read 2,359,123 times
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I doubt that a number of decades that one is alive has any correlation to how many months they will spend in the womb next time. Actually, that is absurd. It means nothing. It’s like saying that I saw three Ford cars on the road today so the next one I purchase will be $3,000. Same logic, which is no logic. Sorry
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Old 01-20-2022, 10:05 AM
 
29,551 posts, read 9,720,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
The truth is the truth regardless whether we believe it or not, yes
But the truth is irrelevant to believers, since there is a placebo effect going on.
What matters is what they believe the truth is, that enhances their lives, not the actual truth.
And, who knows what the truth is anyway, for the most part?
(I probably should have written this on your other thread about the truth.)


For believers yes.
As long as what they believe harms nobody else, then I say go for it.
The truth is irrelevant to lots of people. Believers and non-believers...

Not only because of the placebo effect but lots of other reasons and influences that bend the arc away from recognizing the truth for what it is. All depends on the person, the circumstances and all manner of reason and logic. Or lack thereof. Personal agendas, wants and needs all play a part. I can't speak for anyone else, but I feel the truth enhances my life in many ways. Put another way, embracing falsehoods, half-truths and all other "suspect" claims that can't be well justified is not the path of fulfillment or enlightenment far as I'm concerned.

Perhaps cliche, but I really do think "the truth shall set us free." If only there were more of us who felt strongly enough about this to actually free us of so much nonsense that keeps us from being as free as we should be!
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Old 01-20-2022, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Rural America
269 posts, read 329,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
...Again, I don't know how to reason there was nothing there where the observable universe began.
Well, if you look into quantum physics even just a little, you'll find that the way things work in the quantum world are very strange and unlike our more "reasonable" macro world. To start with, every particle or quantum entity may be considered a particle or a wave. How can it be both? Welcome to quantum mechanics.


Plus, it has been found that particles can "pop into existence" out of the "emptiness" of space, that is if they pop back out of existence according to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
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Old 01-20-2022, 09:29 PM
 
10,036 posts, read 4,965,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heron31 View Post
Well, if you look into quantum physics even just a little, you'll find that the way things work in the quantum world are very strange and unlike our more "reasonable" macro world. To start with, every particle or quantum entity may be considered a particle or a wave. How can it be both? Welcome to quantum mechanics.
Plus, it has been found that particles can "pop into existence" out of the "emptiness" of space, that is if they pop back out of existence according to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
To ' pop back out of existence ' sounds like the resurrection promise when the dead will hear Jesus' voice and wake up.
Some like those of Luke 22:28-30 resurrected to heavenly life - Rev. 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10.
The majority of mankind (John 3:13) can gain resurrected everlasting life on a restored beautified paradisical Earth.
A cleansed Earth with its happy-and-healthy people as described in Isaiah's 35th chapter.
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Old 01-20-2022, 09:35 PM
 
10,036 posts, read 4,965,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
..........., but I am curious what logic or reason can explain how all that has ever existed can have a beginning or end. Again, I don't know how to reason there was nothing there where the observable universe began. How to reason there was nothing there before the observable universe began. ..................
In the Bible, God's spirit was there - please see Psalms 104:30.
God supplied the abundantly needed 'power and strength' to create the material realm of Creation - Isaiah 40:26.
In other words, God supplied the abundantly needed dynamic energy to create.
God as Creator thus existed ' before ' the beginning of any creation - Psalms 90:2
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Old 01-20-2022, 10:00 PM
 
9,408 posts, read 11,932,122 times
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The concept of reincarnation is absurd, at best. So that's a big "WRONG!" on this one.
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Old 01-21-2022, 09:48 AM
 
29,551 posts, read 9,720,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heron31 View Post
Well, if you look into quantum physics even just a little, you'll find that the way things work in the quantum world are very strange and unlike our more "reasonable" macro world. To start with, every particle or quantum entity may be considered a particle or a wave. How can it be both? Welcome to quantum mechanics.

Plus, it has been found that particles can "pop into existence" out of the "emptiness" of space, that is if they pop back out of existence according to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
I think you might be "mixing apples and oranges" here, though I know about many an issue like you describe. All the more justification for my question(s) and conclusion(s) along these lines. I also happen to know a true-blue physics expert who now works for our government with the highest security clearance there is. (I'd have to kill you if I revealed who he is or where he works, but I'm being perfectly honest here). He also used to be a professor at a prestigious university. He's the one who helped answer my question by explaining that all we know with regard to the age of our universe is with respect to our known observable universe. No physicist argues about what existed before our observable universe came into being, and physicists don't spend much time on what they cannot observe. There is no argument nothing was there beforehand however. How could there be?
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Old 01-21-2022, 10:00 AM
 
29,551 posts, read 9,720,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
In the Bible, God's spirit was there - please see Psalms 104:30.
God supplied the abundantly needed 'power and strength' to create the material realm of Creation - Isaiah 40:26.
In other words, God supplied the abundantly needed dynamic energy to create.
God as Creator thus existed ' before ' the beginning of any creation - Psalms 90:2
I have the same questions about God, for those who believe in a god...

How anyone can simply accept a creator that has no beginning or end but can't do the same with respect to all existence. Always seems to me and many others the vacuum of understanding here is filled with notions of god rather than just accept we need not explain all existence in terms of a beginning or end, or creator.

As for assuming the Bible has anything right regarding any explanation along these lines, there is just too much that is incorrect and/or missing in the Bible to consider the Bible a credible source for answers about any of this. All that occurred since the beginning of our planet over 4 billion years ago is missing. In it's place we have stories, fables and myths, like the story of Adam and Eve instead of millions of years of evolution, that clearly demonstrate those who wrote the Bible were essentially clueless about how we got here billions of years after our planet was formed. How could they have known what we know now? Obviously they could not and this is blatantly obvious if anyone reads the Bible and considers what is written from an objective standpoint.

Clearly as well, you are not able to read the Bible in such an objective manner, so you can't recognize the obvious issue(s) and problem(s) along these lines when it comes to establishing what is true and what is not about all this.
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Old 01-21-2022, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Rural America
269 posts, read 329,559 times
Reputation: 1382
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
...I also happen to know a true-blue physics expert... He's the one who helped answer my question by explaining that all we know with regard to the age of our universe is with respect to our known observable universe. No physicist argues about what existed before our observable universe came into being, and physicists don't spend much time on what they cannot observe.
I totally agree. However, there is this guy M. Gasperini, who is a physicist and has published Towards a non-singular pre-big bang cosmology. I do not subscribe to his theory, but there it is.

I should point out, too, that "all we know with regard to... our known observable universe" is, at this point in time, quite a bit!



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