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Old 01-14-2022, 09:52 AM
 
63,785 posts, read 40,053,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heron31 View Post
We've had quite a good look around "above" and out into space. No heaven has been detected. Is it still contended that it is "up there" or what?
I certainly contend that it is the quantum foam within which our BEC "bubbles" of consciousness reside. Of course, it is a bit like a Who trying to explain their micro world to Horton.
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Old 01-14-2022, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
10,529 posts, read 6,160,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue777 View Post
The average lifespan is 80-90 years old.

It takes 8-9 months to have a baby.

Example, if you die at 90 years old, you will be immediately reborn after having lived in the womb for 9 months.

Same as if you die at 80 years old. You will be immediately reborn after having lived in the womb for 8 months.

Same as if you die at 70 years old. You will be immediately reborn after having lived in the womb for 7 months.

Some people live to be 100 and over. There are children that are born at 10 months.

People that have died in their 10's 20's,30's,40's,50's,60's are born at 1 month, 2 months, 3 months, 4 months, 5 months and 6 months.

Example. Someone in their 30's dies in a car crash. He/she is suddenly no longer in the womb. Premature birth

Someone shot and killed in their 40's is suddenly no longer in the womb. Premature birth.

You are an unborn baby right now somewhere. Whatever your age is, that is how old you are in a woman's womb as of this moment.

Is it possible that this is how the universe operates?


The average human life span up until 1850 was 35 years.

Are you saying up until that point, the average baby was born at 3.5 months gestation?
I will leave you to ponder the implication of that.


That's the best, polite response I can give to such a ridiculous premise.
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Old 01-15-2022, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Rural America
269 posts, read 329,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I certainly contend that it is the quantum foam within which our BEC "bubbles" of consciousness reside. Of course, it is a bit like a Who trying to explain their micro world to Horton.
I'm very aware of quantum foam and Bose Einstein Condensates. Your contention regarding the "residence of consciousness" is utter nonsense.
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Old 01-15-2022, 09:47 AM
 
63,785 posts, read 40,053,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heron31 View Post
I'm very aware of quantum foam and Bose-Einstein Condensates. Your contention regarding the "residence of consciousness" is utter nonsense.
I certainly understand your skepticism given the overall worldview you probably have about what Reality IS. My experiences belie pretty much all that you believe about the actual composition of our Reality.

There is little chance that you will change your view and I certainly won't. I have been letting you skeptics get under my skin too much ruining my agape and requiring repentance. Believe what you will. C'est la Vie.
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Old 01-16-2022, 04:34 PM
 
Location: PRC
6,932 posts, read 6,866,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heron31 View Post
We've had quite a good look around "above" and out into space. No heaven has been detected. Is it still contended that it is "up there" or what?
Why would anyone think Heaven is in our physical world - whether that be on Earth or out in physical space among the stars? That is taking the scientific viewpoint to extremes wanting there to be nothing other than our own existence or reality.

Science already postulates other realities/dimensions. So...why not Heaven being one of them? Maybe aliens are another, and ghosts a third? It certainly seems some places like Skinwalker Ranch, Parker Ranch and other places across the world are places where the laws of physics need to be examined and understood better than we currently do.

Folks who currently believe in nothing but science for their belief system - it is said - will after death, experience a blackness or nothingness but with an awareness they are 'still conscious'. This until they start to question what is going on, and then awareness expands and other experiences can come into their awareness.

As you believe, so it is.
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Old 01-16-2022, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,770 posts, read 24,277,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Why would anyone think Heaven is in our physical world ...

Folks who currently believe in nothing but science for their belief system - it is said - will after death, experience a blackness or nothingness but with an awareness they are 'still conscious'. This until they start to question what is going on, and then awareness expands and other experiences can come into their awareness.

As you believe, so it is.
"As you believe, so it is." So if I think a christian poster is an idiot...he is? You really believe that?

Why would someone think heaven in in our physical world? Well, let's see...how is heaven often portrayed to children? As if it's up in the clouds.

At least science has some level of confirmation to what it portrays.

What's your actual confirmation about "will after death, experience a blackness or nothingness but with an awareness they are 'still conscious"? Has someone come back from the grave and confirmed that? Maybe Jimmy Hoffa?
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Old 01-16-2022, 10:45 PM
 
Location: PRC
6,932 posts, read 6,866,775 times
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Read the books on OBEs. There are plenty of people who claim to be able to go where we all go after death. There are plenty of NDE accounts. There are plenty of child reincarnations documented and proven to 'know' stuff which they could not have known about their previous lifetimes.

Quote:
What's your actual confirmation about "will after death, experience a blackness or nothingness but with an awareness they are 'still conscious"? Has someone come back from the grave and confirmed that? Maybe Jimmy Hoffa?
Hoho. It is all about 'proof' right? Well, if science would look at difficult topics and investigate them, then they might have more proof. Science starts with observations, progresses to hypotheses, then to testable experiments - right? At least we do have the observations to start the ball rolling. If science does not choose to run with those, because they cannot think of testable experiments to do, what can I do about it?
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Old 01-17-2022, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,970 posts, read 13,459,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
At least we do have the observations to start the ball rolling. If science does not choose to run with those, because they cannot think of testable experiments to do, what can I do about it?
If they "cannot think of" experiments it is because the proposition is itself inherently untestable. Invisible realms and beings are not available for observation except arguably via personal experience, which is not accessible to anyone but the experiencer. This means it's outside the realm of scientific inquiry. That is an acknowledged limitation of science, and why science is silent on such topics.

That is not the same thing as opening a free-for-all where outside the purview of science we blindly afford belief to all comers because now anything goes -- in my view, anyway. I personally don't trust anything with high-stakes claimed implications (one's eternal destiny, etc) unless it is backed by something of the calibre of scientific proof ... therefore, for me, it remains forever outside the realm of something I'd credit.

To put it into concrete terms, I feel pretty safe assuming something I have no proof for, such as, "my new neighbor who just moved in isn't a murderous psychopath who will kill me in my sleep first chance he gets" because that is highly unlikely and defaulting to a basic level of trust has worked very well for me and others in the past -- despite that it is a high-stakes assumption, it's also low-risk. On the other hand I feel no basis to assume that an afterlife exists and that the dogma of any specific religion should be followed to influence my fate in that afterlife ... over any other, or none at all, given that it requires me to abrogate my own self-determination to some faceless hierarchy of religious officiants in exchange for some asserted post-death benefit, and given that thousands of religious sects disagree substantively on how that is even to be done.
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Old 01-17-2022, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,770 posts, read 24,277,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Read the books on OBEs. There are plenty of people who claim to be able to go where we all go after death. There are plenty of NDE accounts. There are plenty of child reincarnations documented and proven to 'know' stuff which they could not have known about their previous lifetimes.

Hoho. It is all about 'proof' right? Well, if science would look at difficult topics and investigate them, then they might have more proof. Science starts with observations, progresses to hypotheses, then to testable experiments - right? At least we do have the observations to start the ball rolling. If science does not choose to run with those, because they cannot think of testable experiments to do, what can I do about it?
Well, I'm just happy to hear that you believe in reincarnation...which is not a concept that comes from christianity, but rather the Indian-based religions.
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Old 01-17-2022, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,768 posts, read 4,971,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Hoho. It is all about 'proof' right? Well, if science would look at difficult topics and investigate them, then they might have more proof. Science starts with observations, progresses to hypotheses, then to testable experiments - right? At least we do have the observations to start the ball rolling. If science does not choose to run with those, because they cannot think of testable experiments to do, what can I do about it?
Science has, so far NDEs appear to be cultural inventions after the event. That means they are not later remembering something, they are trying to make sense of an unusual experience based on hteir cultural background.
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