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Old 01-17-2022, 09:34 AM
 
63,811 posts, read 40,087,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I certainly contend that it is the quantum foam within which our BEC "bubbles" of consciousness reside. Of course, it is a bit like a Who trying to explain their micro world to Horton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heron31 View Post
I'm very aware of quantum foam and Bose Einstein Condensates. Your contention regarding the "residence of consciousness" is utter nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
If they "cannot think of" experiments it is because the proposition is itself inherently untestable. Invisible realms and beings are not available for observation except arguably via personal experience, which is not accessible to anyone but the experiencer. This means it's outside the realm of scientific inquiry. That is an acknowledged limitation of science, and why science is silent on such topics.

That is not the same thing as opening a free-for-all where outside the purview of science we blindly afford belief to all comers because now anything goes -- in my view, anyway. I personally don't trust anything with high-stakes claimed implications (one's eternal destiny, etc) unless it is backed by something of the calibre of scientific proof ... therefore, for me, it remains forever outside the realm of something I'd credit.

To put it into concrete terms, I feel pretty safe assuming something I have no proof for, such as, "my new neighbor who just moved in isn't a murderous psychopath who will kill me in my sleep first chance he gets" because that is highly unlikely and defaulting to a basic level of trust has worked very well for me and others in the past -- despite that it is a high-stakes assumption, it's also low-risk. On the other hand I feel no basis to assume that an afterlife exists and that the dogma of any specific religion should be followed to influence my fate in that afterlife ... over any other, or none at all, given that it requires me to abrogate my own self-determination to some faceless hierarchy of religious officiants in exchange for some asserted post-death benefit, and given that thousands of religious sects disagree substantively on how that is even to be done.
The untestability is driven by the level at which our senses and measurements EXIST. It precludes observing the micro (quantum) world which comprises over 95% of our Reality as anything but blurs of energy. We exist at aggregate spherical standing wave frequencies that are too low to observe anything at the quantum level as discernible wholes. Only our consciousness exists at the quantum level which is why it requires that we disconnect from our sensory system to experience any of it.
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Old 01-17-2022, 09:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Why would anyone think Heaven is in our physical world - whether that be on Earth or out in physical space among the stars? That is taking the scientific viewpoint to extremes wanting there to be nothing other than our own existence or reality.

Science already postulates other realities/dimensions. So...why not Heaven being one of them? Maybe aliens are another, and ghosts a third? It certainly seems some places like Skinwalker Ranch, Parker Ranch and other places across the world are places where the laws of physics need to be examined and understood better than we currently do.

Folks who currently believe in nothing but science for their belief system - it is said - will after death, experience a blackness or nothingness but with an awareness they are 'still conscious'. This until they start to question what is going on, and then awareness expands and other experiences can come into their awareness.

As you believe, so it is.
Why not?

How do we distinguish between reality and all we can imagine as such?

If anything goes, then all we do is dream on, and boy howdy how some people love to dream big!
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Old 01-17-2022, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Rural America
269 posts, read 329,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Why would anyone think Heaven is in our physical world...
Because no other world has been shown to exist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Science already postulates other realities/dimensions.
Incorrect. Some scientists have speculated and hypothesized about additional dimensions and even additional entire universes. Such hypotheses are imagined to see where they might lead in order to possibly explain some long-standing problems in science, such as the so-called fine-tuning problem. Alan Guth imagined a sudden burst of superluminal expansion (inflation) in the very, very early Universe, which turned out to explain three very thorny problems -- the flatness problem, the horizon problem, and the monopole problem (which is really the only one he was trying to solve). No one is certain whether inflation occurred, but in providing answers to these problems, it is given a fairly high level of plausibility.
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Old 01-17-2022, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Rural America
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Only our consciousness exists at the quantum level...
...in your untested (and possibly untestable) "Synthesis" speculation.
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Old 01-17-2022, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Rural America
269 posts, read 329,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
There are plenty of NDE accounts.
These are reasonably explained through the brain's physical response to traumatic events in Timothy Ferris's book The Mind's Sky, Human Intelligence in a Cosmic Context.
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Old 01-17-2022, 03:04 PM
 
63,811 posts, read 40,087,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The untestability is driven by the level at which our senses and measurements EXIST. It precludes observing the micro (quantum) world which comprises over 95% of our Reality as anything but blurs of energy. We exist at aggregate spherical standing wave frequencies that are too low to observe anything at the quantum level as discernible wholes. Only our consciousness exists at the quantum level which is why it requires that we disconnect from our sensory system to experience any of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heron31 View Post
...in your untested (and possibly untestable) "Synthesis" speculation.
I have never suggested otherwise. But my Synthesis is entirely consistent with legitimate scientific theories and knowledge of the spacetime field. It simplifies and analogizes this understanding from existing legitimate (if more rigorous) science, NOT wild-eyed bull feces extracted from the nether regions of human imagination.
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Old 01-17-2022, 03:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Science has, so far NDEs appear to be cultural inventions after the event. That means they are not later remembering something, they are trying to make sense of an unusual experience based on their cultural background.
This is the basic communication problem involved with transferring direct experiences into communicable explanations for others. All we have are our language, cultural referents, and knowledge to form the descriptions and explanations.
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Old 01-17-2022, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,818 posts, read 24,321,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This is the basic communication problem involved with transferring direct experiences into communicable explanations for others. All we have are our language, cultural referents, and knowledge to form the descriptions and explanations.
I don't actually think that's the problem. Over man's time on earth, countless people have had 'experiences' that are just as valid as yours...but not the same.
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Old 01-17-2022, 03:49 PM
 
63,811 posts, read 40,087,129 times
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Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I don't actually think that's the problem. Over man's time on earth, countless people have had 'experiences' that are just as valid as yours...but not the same.
I'm not sure I quite understand your objection. Are you suggesting that there are other means of communicating and describing direct experiences that are devoid of language, culture, and knowledge? Psychic perhaps??? I agree that other direct experiences that differ from mine exist.
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Rural America
269 posts, read 329,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heron31 View Post
...your untested (and possibly untestable) "Synthesis" speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I have never suggested otherwise.
Thank you. That's a significant admission.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
But my Synthesis is entirely consistent with legitimate scientific theories and knowledge of the spacetime field.
But the "legitimate scientific theories" with which you claim consistency are unfinished and incomplete, so it's a trivial exercise to claim consistency therewith.
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