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It is often the most ardent christians that become atheists, because they have dug in with all they had, only to dig past all the protections that confirmation bias affords and see the man behind the curtain.
I seriously doubt you want to go head to head with many of the atheists here on the topics of commitment to god, the bible, religious traditions and beliefs, missions, fasting & praying, communing with god and more.
I know you think anyone that has ever TRULY known god could never stop believing. That knowing god is a bell is impossible to be un-rung. Probably most of us thought the same thing. It takes a LOT of humility to admit that your whole life you believed and applied yourself to something that turned out to be untrue, it was one of the least comfortable things I've every gone through. But it happens.
Admitting that I was 1000% convinced of a falsehood was no easy pill to swallow. I wasn't just like you 30 years ago, I was absolutely certain I knew god, and my behavior and commitment were the result of it, you were the opposite, your behavior was socially driven, minus a belief in god.
Couldn't have said it better myself. That is exactly what happened.
I also think about how people will say, oh, you weren't really a Christian, if you aren't anymore, yada yada. But funny how when people get divorced for whatever reasons, I don't believe I've ever heard anyone say, well, you must not have loved each other all that much.
Last edited by trobesmom; 01-04-2022 at 02:44 PM..
It is often the most ardent christians that become atheists, because they have dug in with all they had, only to dig past all the protections that confirmation bias affords and see the man behind the curtain.
I seriously doubt you want to go head to head with many of the atheists here on the topics of commitment to god, the bible, religious traditions and beliefs, missions, fasting & praying, communing with god and more.
I know you think anyone that has ever TRULY known god could never stop believing. That knowing god is a bell is impossible to be un-rung. Probably most of us thought the same thing. It takes a LOT of humility to admit that your whole life you believed and applied yourself to something that turned out to be untrue, it was one of the least comfortable things I've every gone through. But it happens.
Admitting that I was 1000% convinced of a falsehood was no easy pill to swallow. I wasn't just like you 30 years ago, I was absolutely certain I knew god, and my behavior and commitment were the result of it, you were the opposite, your behavior was socially driven, minus a belief in god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom
Couldn't have said it better myself. That is exactly what happened.
The tragedy of both your experiences above is that they were never actually about belief in God. They were about belief in the "precepts and doctrines of men" ABOUT God that were tacked on to your visceral sense of God. When all the tacked-on "nonsense" was disconfirmed, the visceral sense (baby) was dismissed along with the "nonsense" (dirty bathwater).
The tragedy of both your experiences above is that they were never actually about belief in God. They were about belief in the "precepts and doctrines of men" ABOUT God that were tacked on to your visceral sense of God. When all the tacked-on "nonsense" was disconfirmed, the visceral sense (baby) was dismissed along with the "nonsense" (dirty bathwater).
I can't say that I disagree. Isn't so much of the Christian or any other experience about the stories we tell ourselves?
It takes a LOT of humility to admit that your whole life you believed and applied yourself to something that turned out to be untrue, it was one of the least comfortable things I've every gone through. But it happens.
Admitting that I was 1000% convinced of a falsehood was no easy pill to swallow. I wasn't just like you 30 years ago, I was absolutely certain I knew god, and my behavior and commitment were the result of it, you were the opposite, your behavior was socially driven, minus a belief in god.
May I ask was it what you believed God is that turned out to be not true or was it the teaching that you received?
The tragedy of both your experiences above is that they were never actually about belief in God. They were about belief in the "precepts and doctrines of men" ABOUT God that were tacked on to your visceral sense of God. When all the tacked-on "nonsense" was disconfirmed, the visceral sense (baby) was dismissed along with the "nonsense" (dirty bathwater).
Almost but not quite. I definitely believed in god, vigorously. In fact, as elements of the traditions of men were slowly eroded, I resorted to more and more simple versions of my beliefs in order to hold on to my love for god. My maker/creator imbued with love, purpose, intelligence, etc. I believed I still could connect with and communicate with the "Master of the Universe", the Father(or Mother) of us all.
So the forms of religion were the result of the belief, not the other way around. I do see why it would appear this way, without having the advantage of 1st person perspective, just as I can relate to your adherence to your acceptance that your meditative experience as all the proof you need. Notice I've never mocked you for that, only noted, that anecdotal evidence is not generally accepted as fact. We all seem to need our own experiences to accept things as facts, probably because universal trust in each other's motives, sensory perceptions, and mental processes is practically non-existent.
No, I KNEW GOD, until I realized it was just me, and every reason, including my extensive time 'communing' with him, was still just me. Frankly, it's embarrassing to pen these words.
May I ask was it what you believed God is that turned out to be not true or was it the teaching that you received?
In my case it went through a series of definition updates. I started out with assorted Judeo-Christian denominational beliefs, although most shared the basic theme that remained, long after I stripped out the silliness of their doctrinal differences. Specifically, I believed thoroughly that God was the purposeful, intentional, maker of the universe, creator of all, the source of all power, energy, matter, was a loving parent to all, with a plan for all and for all time. That god was all powerful, all knowing, ultimately loving, existed everywhere simultaneously, was in and was all things. A very pantheistic version I suppose.
Specifically, I believed thoroughly that God was the purposeful, intentional, maker of the universe, creator of all, the source of all power, energy, matter, was a loving parent to all, with a plan for all and for all time. That god was all powerful, all knowing, ultimately loving, existed everywhere simultaneously, as in and was all things. A very pantheistic version I suppose.
I don't know if it is a pantheistic version, am not quite sure what pantheism is. It seems to me more like the Santa Claus version. I believe this is what we are told as children, because a spiritual/philosophical explanation is something one needs to grow into by oneself, with some help perhaps.
Did you not ever feel there is something superficial and fairy tale like about this vision, a need to question and try to to understand if there is more to this?
Also may I ask, as an adult do you still believe this is all there is to the idea of God?
I don't know if it is a pantheistic version, am not quite sure what pantheism is. It seems to me more like the Santa Claus version. I believe this is what we are told as children, because a spiritual/philosophical explanation is something one needs to grow into by oneself, with some help perhaps.
Did you not ever feel there is something superficial and fairy tale like about this vision, a need to question and try to to understand if there is more to this?
Also may I ask, as an adult do you still believe this is all there is to the idea of God?
I heard what Cyno heard in regular church, not childhood Sunday school.
Almost but not quite. I definitely believed in god, vigorously. In fact, as elements of the traditions of men were slowly eroded, I resorted to more and more simple versions of my beliefs in order to hold on to my love for god. My maker/creator imbued with love, purpose, intelligence, etc. I believed I still could connect with and communicate with the "Master of the Universe", the Father(or Mother) of us all.
So the forms of religion were the result of the belief, not the other way around. I do see why it would appear this way, without having the advantage of 1st person perspective, just as I can relate to your adherence to your acceptance that your meditative experience as all the proof you need. Notice I've never mocked you for that, only noted, that anecdotal evidence is not generally accepted as fact. We all seem to need our own experiences to accept things as facts, probably because universal trust in each other's motives, sensory perceptions, and mental processes is practically non-existent.
No, I KNEW GOD, until I realized it was just me, and every reason, including my extensive time 'communing' with him, was still just me. Frankly, it's embarrassing to pen these words.
It shouldn't be embarrassing at all since it is essentially true, Cyno. That would be the ultimate conclusion of the Oneness as I experienced it. We are, in fact, reproducing the one and only consciousness of God as we add our individuality to Him.
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