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How is it that you get that the physical is NOT real yet you think it is somehow separate from what it manifests within? Again, why would an all-knowing, unchanging, static Witness need billions and billions of unreal physical entities living and trying to understand anything????
The Witness needs nothing. It is pure existence, perfect knowledge, and perfection itself. There are no unreal physical entities other than what your mind projects, other than the world you create. The Witness exists in all of them, because it is Existence. But all that exists are not IT. That is the part you are not grasping. It exists in you, but what you believe to be you, the mortal physical body, is not IT. Until you clear that delusion you will not get it. And the delusion can be cleared, if you choose to.
Why would the version of ultimate reality you perceive express as it does?
As I see it I can point to God, but I can't define or describe God. If I could then surely it's not God. Knowing God's "mind" is beyond the capacity of any human mind. It would be like trying to use a balloon to contain the water coming out of a 2 1/2 inch fire hose on full pressure.
It expresses as it does because it is a LIVING Cosmic consciousness and we are how it grows and reproduces. We do not need to know everything as "fetal consciousnesses" who need to be "born again" upon the "death: of our physical body ("spiritual womb"). IMO, we have the "mind of Christ" (Jesus) to know what character we should strive to BECOME to join with our Father and Jesus ( NOT the corrupted dogma of Christianity as practiced). As mere infants, we need nothing but the basic character (spiritual body) to be born as Spirit. Only then will we know and be known.
Namaste
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
The Witness needs nothing. It is pure existence, perfect knowledge, and perfection itself. There are no unreal physical entities other than what your mind projects, other than the world you create. The Witness exists in all of them, because it is Existence. But all that exists are not IT. That is the part you are not grasping. It exists in you, but what you believe to be you, the mortal physical body, is not IT. Until you clear that delusion you will not get it. And the delusion can be cleared if you choose to.
I grasp it just fine but you ignore my question about why it exists in us. What could be the reason? It seems utterly pointless to me. You seem okay with that, but I am not. My view explains it better, IMO. )and it is NOT oxymoronic).
Namaste.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 04-18-2023 at 09:43 AM..
It expresses as it does because it is a LIVING Cosmic consciousness and we are how it grows and reproduces. We do not need to know everything as "fetal consciousnesses" who need to be "born again" upon the "death: of our physical body ("spiritual womb"). IMO, we have the "mind of Christ" (Jesus) to know what character we should strive to BECOME to join with our Father and Jesus ( NOT the ccurrupted dogma oc Christianity as practiced). As mere infants, we need nothing but the basic character (spiritual body) to be born as Spirit. Only then will we know and be known.
Namaste
I grasp it just fine but you ignore my question about why it exists in us. What could be the reason? It seems utterly pointless to me. You seem okay with that, but I am not. My view explains it better, IMO.
Namaste.
It exists because it IS Existence, existence is what it IS, it is All existence. I will quarrel with your view if i understood it. I am not sure you understand it. Because Brhman exists everywhere, it exists within us also. That does not mean we, this human body and mind are the same as Existence. It is in us but it is not our ego or body. What it is NOT is as important to know as what it is. This is not difficult to grasp if you allow yourself to.
It expresses as it does because it is a LIVING Cosmic consciousness and we are how it grows and reproduces. We do not need to know everything as "fetal consciousnesses" who need to be "born again" upon the "death: of our physical body ("spiritual womb"). IMO, we have the "mind of Christ" (Jesus) to know what character we should strive to BECOME to join with our Father and Jesus ( NOT the corrupted dogma of Christianity as practiced). As mere infants, we need nothing but the basic character (spiritual body) to be born as Spirit. Only then will we know and be known.
Namaste
I grasp it just fine but you ignore my question about why it exists in us. What could be the reason? It seems utterly pointless to me. You seem okay with that, but I am not. My view explains it better, IMO. )and it is NOT oxymoronic).
Namaste.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
It exists because it IS Existence, existence is what it IS, it is All existence. I will quarrel with your view if i understood it. I am not sure you understand it. Because Brhman exists everywhere, it exists within us also. That does not mean we, this human body and mind are the same as Existence. It is in us but it is not our ego or body. What it is NOT is as important to know as what it is. This is not difficult to grasp if you allow yourself to.
The bold is an UNinformative platitude that is used by everyone as if it explains anything. It does not. If you are satisfied with it, that is fine. I am not. I refuse to believe my life is a pointless illusion with no reason to be in existence. I accept that you, Tzaph, and SimpleGuy find it meaningful. I don't. Your similarity to the neuroscientists' dismissal of our Self is striking. I am unable to relate to it, but I grasp it just fine.
The bold is an UNinformative platitude that is used by everyone as if it explains anything. It does not. If you are satisfied with it, that is fine. I am not. I refuse to believe my life is a pointless illusion with no reason to be in existence. I accept that you, Tzaph, and SimpleGuy find it meaningful. I don't. Your similarity to the neuroscientists' dismissal of our Self is striking. I am unable to relate to it, but I grasp it just fine.
Namaste
that your view and definition of divinity is purely materialistic,
demonstrates that you do not grasp that whiich is outside of space time and form
that your view and definition of divinity is purely materialistic,
demonstrates that you do not grasp that whiich is outside of space time and form
That you think there IS something outside of space and time demonstrates that you are completely wedded to "woo," NOT Reality. For one thing, there is ONLY TIME not space. The "time and space" we experience and measure are ARTIFACTS of forming our conscious awareness as quanta during QUANTUM TIME. This is why we have such silliness as spooky action at a distance, quantum entanglement, time dilation, etc.
Our conscious awareness forms at the speed of light which is WHY the speed of light is constant when we use our awareness in our measurements. I realize you do not comprehend any of this since it is not in your esoteric wheelhouse. Unfortunately, despite believing in the Oneness you do not grasp it with your continual references to materiality as if it is somehow different from the Oneness. It is NOT! There is ONLY the Oneness, period!
That you think there IS something outside of space and time demonstrates that you are completely wedded to "woo," NOT Reality. For one thing, there is ONLY TIME not space. The "time and space" we experience and measure are ARTIFACTS of forming our conscious awareness as quanta during QUANTUM TIME. This is why we have such silliness as spooky action at a distance, quantum entanglement, time dilation, etc. Our conscious awareness forms at the speed of light which is WHY the speed of light is constant when we use our awareness in our measurements. I realize you do not comprehend any of this since it is not in your esoteric wheelhouse. Unfortunately, despite believing in the Oneness you do not grasp it with your continual references to materiality as if it is somehow different from the Oneness. It is NOT! There is ONLY the Oneness, period!
the only reality which you accept is a physical reality and a materialist view.
you equate that with divinity and believe there is no divinity without physicality.
anything outside of physicality you dismiss as woo and platitudes.
oh well.
discussions of divinity continue in this thread and other threads and i enjoy them.
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put simply: divinity is the source of physicality. physicality is a byproduct of divinity.
physicality stems from, flows from, and is dependent upon divinity.
the reverse is not the case, divinity is not dependent upon physicality. physical bodies die. suns burn out. physical worlds and planets die and all the life upon them. divinity is not affected in the least by any of it.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 04-18-2023 at 11:41 PM..
That you think there IS something outside of space and time demonstrates that you are completely wedded to "woo," NOT Reality. For one thing, there is ONLY TIME not space. The "time and space" we experience and measure are ARTIFACTS of forming our conscious awareness as quanta during QUANTUM TIME. This is why we have such silliness as spooky action at a distance, quantum entanglement, time dilation, etc.
Our conscious awareness forms at the speed of light which is WHY the speed of light is constant when we use our awareness in our measurements. I realize you do not comprehend any of this since it is not in your esoteric wheelhouse. Unfortunately, despite believing in the Oneness you do not grasp it with your continual references to materiality as if it is somehow different from the Oneness. It is NOT! There is ONLY the Oneness, period!
Your struggle to understand is due to your previous adherence to atheism and thus you reflexively respond when woo is mentioned. Phet knows this and thus the interjection and your predictable response. Time and space both are relative, of course. As is the world. The only reality is existence which is Brhman.
Jesus is of the world, Ishvara is the world. Moksha, liberation, is when you are no longer affected by the world as long as you are in the world.
Unfortunately, despite believing in the Oneness you do not grasp it with your continual references to materiality as if it is somehow different from the Oneness. It is NOT! There is ONLY the Oneness, period!
If Oneness is truth then you have to explain the apparent multiplicity because it's apparently not One. So there's a deeper reality and science isn't even remotely close to understanding it. Science takes the multiplicity to be the reality and I don't see how you can attempt to use science to dismiss it. Are you saying you know more about physics than someone like Ed Witten, Sean Carroll or Roger Penrose?
Concerning Woo... I'd say there's science, there's religion/spirituality and then there's Woo, and I would define Woo as an attempt to use science to support one's view of religion/spirituality.
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