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Not necessarily. They can also be valid, of course.
Furthermore...only if it is known to be wrong, but put forth anyway, is it a "lie". It could just be an error.
It's not a "lie" if one believes it to be so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
When one says they have alternate "facts", it's a lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
I do not agree. I can explain the logic behind this disagreement.
Consider this example:
It is a fact that there are people who think Football is a great sport and activity.
Alternatively...it is a fact there are people who think it is a dangerous waste of time & effort.
Both valid "facts"...neither a "lie".
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Don't waste my time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
No. It is a biased dichotomy. The opposite of true is false, NOT lie. Lies involve human intentional deceit that has nothing to do with the actual states involved.
They do not want to face the logic in this.
They look to slap the "lie" accusation upon almost anything they don't agree with. Especially any concept that supports the existence of a God Entity.
They do not want to face the logic in this.
They look to slap the "lie" accusation upon almost anything they don't agree with. Especially any concept that supports the existence of a God Entity.
They do not want to face the logic in this.
They look to slap the "lie" accusation upon almost anything they don't agree with. Especially any concept that supports the existence of a God Entity.
Interesting how you leave out whole sections of my posts. I'd equate doing that to a lie.
Anyone who has been following the news lately (and for quite some time actually) has got to notice how important it really is to recognize the truth and/or the lies. How important it truly is to separate the facts from the nonsense, or we end up with people believing, pursuing and insisting on a dangerous battle with windmills that affects all of us. Brings us all down. Indeed the inability of so many people to separate the truth from the lies is a very dangerous thing.
Whether it be religion or politics, the result of this want to embrace falsehoods instead of the truth in order to pursue misguided agendas is a very dangerous thing indeed..............
To me the ^above^ is important because Jesus taught that it is Scripture that is: 'religious truth' at John 17:17.
Pilate spoke of truth in general, but Jesus spoke of God's Truth - Psalms 12:6; Psalms 119:151; Psalms 119:160
Religious truth which includes having un-hypocritical love from the heart - 1st Peter 1:22
They do not want to face the logic in this.
They look to slap the "lie" accusation upon almost anything they don't agree with. Especially any concept that supports the existence of a God Entity.
Interesting take on it, but, yes. That was especially noticeable as I grew up, raised by my grandparents, who had lived through the Great Depression.
From about the age of 8 until I entered high school, I was required to go to the methodist church every Sunday at 11. At first I had to suffer through Sunday School, but finally at about age 10 I 'graduated' to real church. As I would sit there I would look at my grandmother focused solely on Reverend Durham (a very nice man) giving his sermon. We'd get home about 12:30 (Rev Durham was long winded) and for the next hour my grandmother would cook the most impressive meal of the week for Sunday dinner. Usually roast chicken, or something of the sort. We'd sit down to eat around 2. And sometimes, just to be irritating, as we ate I'd say to my grandmother, "What did Mr. Durham talk about today?" She never knew. She sat there in rapt attention, with every word of Rev Durham's sermon going in one ear and out the other. And this is why that old hymn always made me chuckle...religion without thinking...which often resulted in action without thinking of christian principles.
Ha. I like your childhood stories, Phetaroi.
I do think there is thinking going on but maybe there is an attempt to simplify abstract notions by making them more concrete. Principles are abstract after all but sometimes a decision has to be made that is not ideal. This is why I think Learnme started this thread in order to gather different ideas on the process of determining truth from lies. Religion can often provide that decision-making process and simplify it with certain rules to follow. The concept of autonomy might be something to look at. There are times when people would like to be autonomous, for example, the freedom to believe in what they want. Then other times autonomy is removed when taking what one says at face value.
I do not agree. I can explain the logic behind this disagreement.
Consider this example:
It is a fact that there are people who think Football is a great sport and activity.
Alternatively...it is a fact there are people who think it is a dangerous waste of time & effort.
Both valid "facts"...neither a "lie".
None of those are facts, they're just opinions.
'Thinking' something doesn't make it a fact.
I've got a cousin who 'thinks' the moon landings were faked.
He's wrong.
None of those are facts, they're just opinions.
'Thinking' something doesn't make it a fact.
I've got a cousin who 'thinks' the moon landings were faked.
He's wrong.
Is it "true", a "fact", that there are people who think Football is a great sport and activity? Yes or No?
And...is it "true", a "fact", that there are people who think Football is a dangerous waste of time & effort? Yes or No?
I said nothing about the veracity of the concepts...just that it is a fact people hold them. And that is what's true.
And this is where I see some continually make a mistake.
They assess whether a claim is true or not...and fail to consider how widely held it is.
I constantly try to explain what I call "The Way The World Works": Popular opinion and perception functions as reality to society overall. Especially if it is presented as meritorious.
For my entire childhood I ate meat & drank milk all the time...because it was presented as truth (remember the "Food Pyramid?) that was required to maintain good health. The end result of those so-called "facts" was the invention of Cardiac By-pass surgery, angioplasty & stents, and Statin drugs. But everybody did the same as I was at the time...because that was the information at the time. Then the info changed...and now some has changed back.
The same with Theology...the most epic and prolific books & writings in the history of humankind put forth what they do...and most believe what is written in them. To them...it isn't just "true"...it is the ultimate truth. So much so, these ideas saturate the world to the point that they are considered to be The Standard.
It is a "fact" that people firmly believe these concepts...and that is the "truth" that will drive views & behavior.
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