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Anyone who has been following the news lately (and for quite some time actually) has got to notice how important it really is to recognize the truth and/or the lies. How important it truly is to separate the facts from the nonsense, or we end up with people believing, pursuing and insisting on a dangerous battle with windmills that affects all of us. Brings us all down. Indeed the inability of so many people to separate the truth from the lies is a very dangerous thing.
Whether it be religion or politics, the result of this want to embrace falsehoods instead of the truth in order to pursue misguided agendas is a very dangerous thing indeed.
No one really knows what to do about this problem, and I'm short of answers too, but at a minimum I'd ask anyone how they go about separating the truth from the lies? Does their process pass muster?
What is your process and why does it pass muster in your opinion?
The biggest thing I see right now is a complete unwillingness to see simple truth for what it is. Our nation has bought into the lie that truth is subjective and is based on emotion.
That's evident in this forum, and its subforums, as much as anywhere.
Is it "true", a "fact", that there are people who think Football is a great sport and activity? Yes or No?
And...is it "true", a "fact", that there are people who think Football is a dangerous waste of time & effort? Yes or No?
I said nothing about the veracity of the concepts...just that it is a fact people hold them. And that is what's true.
And this is where I see some continually make a mistake.
They assess whether a claim is true or not...and fail to consider how widely held it is.
I constantly try to explain what I call "The Way The World Works": Popular opinion and perception functions as reality to society overall. Especially if it is presented as meritorious.
For my entire childhood I ate meat & drank milk all the time...because it was presented as truth (remember the "Food Pyramid?) that was required to maintain good health. The end result of those so-called "facts" was the invention of Cardiac By-pass surgery, angioplasty & stents, and Statin drugs. But everybody did the same as I was at the time...because that was the information at the time. Then the info changed...and now some has changed back.
The same with Theology...the most epic and prolific books & writings in the history of humankind put forth what they do...and most believe what is written in them. To them...it isn't just "true"...it is the ultimate truth. So much so, these ideas saturate the world to the point that they are considered to be The Standard.
It is a "fact" that people firmly believe these concepts...and that is the "truth" that will drive views & behavior.
That's playing very fast and loose with the concept of fact.
It's a fact yes that people have opinions.
That does not mean that their opinions are facts.
And this is the problem we have is that people are stupid and cannot distinguish between the two and actually why a certain yellow haired guy had control for a while.
If a statement is made such as:
'A lot of people think that the election was rigged' , this doesn't mean that the election was rigged. It might be true that a lot of people think that the election was rigged because a certain person told them that the election was rigged. This does not mean the election was rigged.
But people cannot make the distinction and that's why it's very dangerous to say that just because people think something, it's a fact.
It's very dangerous territory and we have to stop doing it.
Our nation has bought into the lie that truth is subjective and is based on emotion.
Well, maybe 30% of our nation have that view. And I don't know if it's just based on simple emotion or based on the (apparently compelling) ravings of a popular carnival barker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
That's evident in this forum, and its subforums, as much as anywhere.
Quite so! To maintain your sanity, don't go near the politics forum!
That's playing very fast and loose with the concept of fact.
It's a fact yes that people have opinions.
That does not mean that their opinions are facts.
And this is the problem we have is that people are stupid and cannot distinguish between the two and actually why a certain yellow haired guy had control for a while.
If a statement is made such as:
'A lot of people think that the election was rigged' , this doesn't mean that the election was rigged. It might be true that a lot of people think that the election was rigged because a certain person told them that the election was rigged. This does not mean the election was rigged.
But people cannot make the distinction and that's why it's very dangerous to say that just because people think something, it's a fact.
It's very dangerous territory and we have to stop doing it.
The idea "we have to stop doing that"...is just as unrealistic as embracing ideas that are not valid.
People always have, and always will, embrace concepts that are not objectively valid...and those who think stopping that is something they "have to do" are going to be sorely disappointed.
People function mostly on emotion and feelings rather than facts. Which is why so many took issue with the certain yellow haired guy...they based their assessment of him on emotional feelings about his personality (which is very displeasing) rather than a factual critique of the effects of overall legislation & orders signed into effect.
Most (and that is MOST) function on headtrips more than facts. And THAT is The Way Of The World.
If that "territory" was actually so very dangerous...humans would not have survived. Actually...instinct is probably much more efficient than "reason". For most of human history...humankind "knew" very few of the "facts" we have available currently.
Anyone who has been following the news lately (and for quite some time actually) has got to notice how important it really is to recognize the truth and/or the lies. How important it truly is to separate the facts from the nonsense, or we end up with people believing, pursuing and insisting on a dangerous battle with windmills that affects all of us. Brings us all down. Indeed the inability of so many people to separate the truth from the lies is a very dangerous thing.
Whether it be religion or politics, the result of this want to embrace falsehoods instead of the truth in order to pursue misguided agendas is a very dangerous thing indeed.
No one really knows what to do about this problem, and I'm short of answers too, but at a minimum I'd ask anyone how they go about separating the truth from the lies? Does their process pass muster?
What is your process and why does it pass muster in your opinion?
Following the news is part of the problem, LearnMe. In America, the propaganda is NOT government-based as it is in Russia. It is ideologically based, but that does not make it any less propaganda. As Gldn says, the MAJORITY determines what is the effective reality and the majority media is no exception.
The idea "we have to stop doing that"...is just as unrealistic as embracing ideas that are not valid.
People always have, and always will, embrace concepts that are not objectively valid...and those who think stopping that is something they "have to do" are going to be sorely disappointed. People function mostly on emotion and feelings rather than facts. Which is why so many took issue with the certain yellow haired guy...they based their assessment of him on emotional feelings about his personality (which is very displeasing) rather than a factual critique of the effects of overall legislation & orders signed into effect.
Most (and that is MOST) function on headtrips more than facts. And THAT is The Way Of The World.
If that "territory" was actually so very dangerous...humans would not have survived. Actually...instinct is probably much more efficient than "reason". For most of human history...humankind "knew" very few of the "facts" we have available currently.
Yes sadly they do. Which is precisely why so many believed the yellow haired guy that told them a pack of lies on a daily basis.
Some of us around here think integrity and truthfulness is still important, however 'unrealistic' that may be. Still it's something to strive for and something that should be insisted upon regardless what an uphill battle it may be.
We don't need to put up with lies in return for legislation. We can have honesty AND legislation. It depends on your sense of ethics.
Last edited by Cruithne; 01-21-2022 at 09:14 AM..
Reason: Fixed quote
Following the news is part of the problem, LearnMe. In America, the propaganda is NOT government-based as it is in Russia. It is ideologically based, but that does not make it any less propaganda. As Gldn says, the MAJORITY determines what is the effective reality and the majority media is no exception.
Well, maybe 30% of our nation have that view. And I don't know if it's just based on simple emotion or based on the (apparently compelling) ravings of a popular carnival barker.
Quite so! To maintain your sanity, don't go near the politics forum!
Really, I should have said "our culture", rather than our nation. This isn't political in nature. But it's especially visible here in these forums. Everyone thinks truth is subject to their own view.
I think I agree with mystic on this, although perhaps it's a question of semantics.
True and false are opposites.
Telling the truth and telling lies are opposites.
Being wrong does not equal a lie.
The tricky part comes when you declare something to be 'true' when, in reality, you have not proven that. And this is where religionists always get into trouble. For example Thomas Jefferson took the NT and attempted to sift it down to things actually known about Jesus. It's a damned small booklet. I'm not saying Jefferson was accurate, but his efforts made a point -- all these bible heroes, all these writings about Buddha, et al, we know virtually nothing about them. In many cases not much more facts than enough to fill a few index cards. And yet religionists will say we know all about them. We know virtually nothing. And this is where (at least on this forum) they always go in the wrong direction -- trying to prove facts with not enough raw material to do so INSTEAD OF DISCUSSING PRINCIPLES.
To uncomplicate things a bit here...
I never wrote that being wrong equals a lie. Just for starters.
Misrepresenting a statement is what complicates matters unnecessarily.
If the same process is used, do you differentiate ignorance from lies?
Depends on the specific(s).
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