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"FAR worse" is very subjective.
Since the subject of the OP is basically "Truth vs Lies".
Most serious lies in recent political history (IMO): Read my lips, no new taxes...I did not have sex with that woman & 5 grams of rock should get you the same 5 years mandatory as 500 grams of powder...They have lots of WMD...If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.
Compare the effects of all that to: My inauguration had the highest attendance.
I will take a jillion insignificant "lies" based on egotrips...to major lies that have ultra effects.
If you won't accept lying politicians...you basically don't accept politicians. Kinda like striped zebras.
Once again I disagree. Isolated incidents are incomparable with daily multiple lies. I disagree that jillions of lies are insignificant especially when they are mixed in with significant ones. Let's not make this a list because the yellow haired one will lose by a country mile. Also this isn't the politics forum and if I list the lies I'll get my post deleted or worse which is why I'm trying to speak in generalizations.
If its all the same to you I'll stick with the ones that tell the truth most of the time rather than the ones that wouldn't know the truth if it smacked them in the face with a wet fish.
I'm thinking we should get back on topic and discuss ways, if any to discern the truth.
I will think about it and return to the thread.
One thing I learned from being a vice-principal and principal was that the worst thing to have was an administrative team made up of "yes men". When we had administrative team meetings I would chide my assistant principals and guidance director to challenge whatever the prevailing thought was about any vexing problem. I wanted them to play devil's advocate. I didn't want them to say what they thought I wanted them to say. By challenging assumptions we usually got closer to the truth and made better decisions.
Maybe it is you that is missing the point. Missing something anyway...
I for one think the truth is important, and of course I'm not the only one. Too bad there aren't more of us around far as I'm concerned, and at least part of what you are missing is that I don't care whether the want of the truth will meet with disappointment or angst. Frankly the effort satisfies me more than it disappoints. The disappointment and angst comes from people who don't feel the truth is important. People who don't bother to think things through in order to distinguish the truth from what is not true.
All you point out are elements that stand in the way of getting to the truth. Retard our progress, but if it were not people who make the effort anyway, and take it seriously, we'd still be burning witches at the stake!
Put another way or to use another example, just because love may also cause disappointment and angst, due to all the "real-life" reasons you list, doesn't mean love is not worth pursuing! AND CAN BE HAD! Succumbing to these sorts of challenges is cowardly and becoming part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
Your idealistic prattling about the need for truth as if it is something most people do not know or desire is just annoying. You seem to be oblivious to the fact that the actual truth that matters is very elusive, especially about social and societal things driven by human motivations, ideologies, and agendas, like yours. Your reliance on the news indicates a naivete and ignorance about the actual ideological biases in the selectors, providers, and explainers of the news. Science is a limited tool for discerning truth and most of the more significant and important issues are beyond its reach.
Your idealistic prattling about the need for truth as if it is something most people do not know or desire is just annoying. You seem to be oblivious to the fact that the actual truth that matters is very elusive, especially about social and societal things driven by human motivations, ideologies, and agendas, like yours. Your reliance on the news indicates a naivete and ignorance about the actual ideological biases in the selectors, providers, and explainers of the news. Science is a limited tool for discerning truth and most of the more significant and important issues are beyond its reach.
Maybe it is you that is missing the point. Missing something anyway...
I for one think the truth is important, and of course I'm not the only one. Too bad there aren't more of us around far as I'm concerned, and at least part of what you are missing is that I don't care whether the want of the truth will meet with disappointment or angst. Frankly the effort satisfies me more than it disappoints. The disappointment and angst comes from people who don't feel the truth is important. People who don't bother to think things through in order to distinguish the truth from what is not true.
All you point out are elements that stand in the way of getting to the truth. Retard our progress, but if it were not people who make the effort anyway, and take it seriously, we'd still be burning witches at the stake!
Put another way or to use another example, just because love may also cause disappointment and angst, due to all the "real life" reasons you list, doesn't mean love is not worth pursuing! AND CAN BE HAD! Succumbing to these sorts of challenges is cowardly and becoming part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
You and others keep mentioning "Burning Witches"...as a slam on those that lacked what the truth was based upon a misinterpretation of Theological writings.
Very tragic...but how many lost their life from that, total?
What I see as a far, far, far greater harm to humankind...is those that work to learn what is true, but then intentionally lie to themselves and others so they can take lives by the hundreds of millions, and be able to do it without legal consequences...even fight for it as a "right" to be able to do it. THAT is what's currently "cowardly" and "part of the problem". Bigtime STEM assist on that too...with way more dead than by any theology.
That's what gives me angst.
As far as real "love"...I don't see much of that. In fact...I see a lot of hate and intolerance.
And as for "truth"...I really do wish we had more of it...but not so much the clinical, academic type, cold "truth" I see most advocate for...I wanna see the philosophical truth, and what people "hold as dear" to them.
I think it comes down to how one approaches it. I do my best not to treat what others say as lying. Many times the pursuit of truth is agenda-driven. In other words, there is lying going on all the time. If we can't catch all of the lyings, why focus on a particular person? Perhaps this needs to be part of the process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
Yes, thanks, and after all is said and done along these lines generally speaking, it's only when we get into the specifics that we can really get a good look at how well anyone's process is working to determine what is the truth and what is not.
My process includes evidence but I can't demand it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Let's put it this way. It reminds me a bit of how American schools work in regard to American history. Kids start learning about American history in very simple lessons early in primary school. Then American history is tackled again in middle school. And then once again in high school. Each time, of course, becoming more sophisticated. The typical American christian today doesn't even go to church on a regular basis (only about 37-39%, Pew & Gallup). And, most christians don't do bible study at home. Take away the ritual aspect and the repetitive prayers, and even most of those who go to church regularly get a few minutes of scripture each week, a brief sermon, and no discussion. There's no real depth. And the majority -- who don't go to church with any regularity -- don't even get that. It's akin to elementary school level christianity. For most, it's shallow. And there's much truth to that with most people today in most religions. It's not just the christians, it's pretty much the same in Buddhism. Life goes on.
My personal belief is that for most people, regardless of society, daily behavior is based more on societal norms than religious texts.
I see now. It's the lack of depth. Maybe people don't feel it is worth the time to think deeply about things since feelings can be fleeting.
This thread has been borderline off topic for this forum since it was started. If you aren't going to discuss Religion or Spirituality, the thread will be closed.
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