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Those on the outer ends of each side are BOTH prime for viewing and relating things in a way that does not comport with how it really is... Both outer sides are tainted...
So to you, it doesn't matter if one side's position is based on facts and the other side's position is based on lies. You consider them both "venom spitting radicals/extremists." I must say, that's a pretty weird way to view things, but there it is.
So to you, it doesn't matter if one side's position is based on facts and the other side's position is based on lies. You consider them both "venom spitting radicals/extremists." I must say, that's a pretty weird way to view things, but there it is.
I never said that "it doesn't matter if one side's position is based on facts and the other side's position is based on lies"....that's what someone typically situated on an outer extreme would think though.
Fom The Middle...I can assess with unbiased reason. And I assess each matter separately.
Those on each end (of any type issue) are unable to see through the fog of biased partiality to even make a reasoned analysis...their assessment is pre-skewed to either side, and they are mired down in their predilections.
It is almost impossible for them to fairly determine how things really were/are.
And those in The Middle can see the biased a mile away...because they plainly reveal themselves with their hyperbolic claims of The Other Side is "destroying everything", "the biggest threat to humankind", "evil & horrible", "should be committed to a mental institution/locked up or otherwise eliminated...and they put these things forth with relish.
I guess you are not aware of the World.
The people most persecuted right now are the million Muslim Uyghurs that the officially Atheist CCP is torturing & killing in concentration camps...because they are Muslims.
They are not "looking for evidence and truth"...they are harming out of pure bias.
The TRUTH is...you, et al, spending time every day getting on the case, bashing, interrogating, insulting, and mocking the Religious, for embracing a Religion, has people like me looking at you as I do. And the view is very negative.
Like I said before...your miserable harassment and questioning should be met with nothing but telling you to "Go spit into a strong wind".
Wanna know about a Theological Concept or why they embrace it?...fine. Wanna get on their case and interrogate them for believing how they do?...stuff it.
Here we go with yet another post about "bashing, interrogating, insulting, and mocking". It's a waste of my time to continue reading this multiple times a day. Time to start ignoring your posts.
YOU just pointed to "the disconnect".
Note the bolded in my copied responses to you above ^^^.
I note there are exceptions. More than once. You saw that, right?
So...you then note one of those few exceptions and try to use it as a argument against me. THAT is the disconnect.
Not sure I follow...
Exceptions don't in any way negate what I am trying to explain and advocate when it comes to judging right from wrong or the importance of doing so.
Yes there are many ways, but seemingly for a lot of people, they don't seem very obvious, which is presumably the reason you started the thread?
It would be lovely to say "just use your common sense".
But common sense appears to be severely lacking these days.
We've got millions of followers of Qanon who believed that a cabal of cannabalistic pedo's were trying to overthrow the Pres from the basement of a pizza restaurant (or something like that). This is the level of gullability we are dealing with here.
So. What's the solution?
I mean, realistically there isn't one.
The people that believe in nonsense will continue believing in nonsense, and the rest of us won't.
But as a rule of thumb I'd say your best bet is to:
1. Examine your own personal biases. Do you believe something because you want to believe it or do you believe it regardless of whether you like it or not?
2. Consider the source. Is the source otherwise reliable in other ways? Is the source open about credentials or are they at the other extreme anonymous? Has the information been openly peer reviewed?
3. Check with multiple reliable sources.
4. Does it sound credible or does it sound outlandish/not possible?
These are all pretty basic.
The reason I started this thread is because I am forever "impressed" by how little people seem to think about this challenge. Perhaps how little importance too many people place on the truth and what it takes to get to it. Then to draw proper conclusion.
The solution depends on who you are dealing with. For those open to the topic and able to consider the challenge objectively and intelligently, there are many "solutions" or at least ways to do better than all too many people who don't bother. For those who seem blinded by the many ways and reasons they are not being objective, the "solutions" are quite a bit different and more difficult. For those who are altogether closed minded or not able to think critically about any of this. They are a lost cause.
Your 1 through 4 best bet approach is a good one, but again not comprehensive. What sounds credible or outlandish is a subjective matter as well. One of the ways to fight confirmation bias is to test the justification of your own opinions, beliefs and conclusions. One of the basic ways, but who can truly accomplish such a test objectively enough to be effective? At a minimum is to think about it. Too many people don't think about it at all...
Thanks for your contributions BTW. I think you get it, and I am fairly sure from your comments you are able to address the challenge of distilling the truth better than the average cat. At least it is quite evident you recognize the challenge and try to deal with it better than others who don't seem to get it at all!
I am on your side on this argument simply because of this comment.
We have the extremists on each side that are pretty much immoveable and unfortunately that seems to be a huge component of the spectrum these days.
Someone like Learn Me may not be an extremist but ends up believing that a position either to the right or left of their own is "wrong". So while this position is more respectable than the knee jerk extremist it also doesn't allow for much dialogue regarding solving problems.
It is clear that right wing thinking puts a premium on the individual and left wing thinking puts a the premium on the group. It's been that way since we started walking on two feet and will always be that way.
Isaiah 1:18 says "Come, let us reason together". Holding rigid positions certainly isn't conducive to following that verse in the Bible.
Even the Bible has verses that support both positions. Jesus demonstrated and spoke in both favor of both positions at one time or another.
This is a troubling comment as well...
For reasons I already explained. Perhaps you missed those explanations?
What I like about this comment, however, is the mention of yet another process that CAN be important with regard to working toward the truth; dialogue! If you or anyone can point to any comment of mine that suggests dialogue should be stifled rather than encouraged, please do. Dialogue is great and it certainly CAN work. Unfortunately, since everyone thinks they are right about their opinions, beliefs and points of view, we often have to turn away from the dialogue and pursue other means of establishing what is true and what is not. Who is right and who is not. This forum well proves out this very real challenge every day.
Unfortunately you and Gldn seem to understand what I'm explaining here in an up-side-down sort of way. Yes, "let us reason together!" Let us not come up with all sorts of strawman arguments that keep that effort from getting anywhere.
Fair enough.
Its difficult to discuss truth and lies without referring to present day propaganda which in general has been in the field of politics.
I'm trying to think of concrete examples where religion 'lies' to it's followers. I can think of a few, but they are more a bending of reality and imagination than lies.
Religious text and dogma tends to be more in the realm of 'storytelling' than 'lies'. I think most people would regard stories and lies completely differently.
Perhaps the actual question is, what is the difference between fact and fiction? But that would be another thread.
My comment #374 and that example was one I thought to be pretty good for purposes of this discussion, but of course there is the need to "handle with care" to avoid cause to receive an infraction. At least infractions for those who need the reminder is better than shutting down an entire thread because of those who can't avoid touching that "third rail" of politics. Got to appreciate that!
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