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Yes, ever since Tertullian (remember him and John 20?) made the first clear reference to a trinity almost the same as yours. You have been arguing over it since then, from Origen, through Arian, even Eusebius had to tread carefully.
There is nothing except a later interpolation in to Matthew that is clearly trinitarian.
Actually, no. It was taught by actual apostles. The guys who walked and talked with Jesus.
But to answer the OP, yes--we are monotheistic. The one who disagrees with that statement by citing an alternate view of God's nature that has not been taught by Christianity for 2000 years is not arguing actual facts.
Actually, no. It was taught by actual apostles. The guys who walked and talked with Jesus.
So you keep asserting, even though the evidence is against this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
But to answer the OP, yes--we are monotheistic. The one who disagrees with that statement by citing an alternate view of God's nature that has not been taught by Christianity for 2000 years is not arguing actual facts.
Oh, you have taught this for almost 2000 years, you just can not agree on how it actually works. THAT is your 2000 year old problem. And we can see this in the writings of Origen and Eusebius, unlike your assertions.
This is a fair question. To me, the passage where Jesus most explicitly claims to be God comes from the Gospel of John, chapter 8, verses 48-59.
In order to understand the references Jesus makes here, you have to put yourself in the shoes of His Jewish audience who were intimately familiar with the story of Moses and the burning bush from the Old Testament (Exodus chapter 3).
In the passage in Exodus, Moses comes across a bush that is on fire, but is not being burned up. Then a voice calls out to Moses from the burning bush. The voice claims to be the God of Abraham and proceeds to tell Moses to return to Egypt to rescue the Hebrews from Egyptian slavery. Moses asks how he can convince the Hebrews that he has truly been sent by God, and God responds: "Say this to the people of Israel: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
Here's the passage from the Gospel of John. And note at the end, they wanted to stone Jesus for blasphemy. The Jews obviously understood that Jesus was making a claim of divinity, or else why would they want to stone him?
The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?” Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge. Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.” The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’ Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?” Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
There is no I am that i am in the OT according to Hebrew scholars that know their language better than any trinitarian--I will be what i will be is correct. A mistranslation of that passage to deceive. Jesus just answered the question honestly-He lived before Abraham. Your versions of Gods written word are altered in many places. The religion that came out of Romes translating is all that remained when others translated.
There is no I am that i am in the OT according to Hebrew scholars that know their language better than any trinitarian--I will be what i will be is correct. A mistranslation of that passage to deceive. Jesus just answered the question honestly-He lived before Abraham. Your versions of Gods written word are altered in many places. The religion that came out of Romes translating is all that remained when others translated.
Please. Tell us how you know that is a mis-translation, and more specifically, how do you know it is to deceive.
Also, how does your interpretation keep Christianity from being monotheistic?
The Psalms fairly explode with evidence. “There is none like you among the gods, O Lord” (86:8); “For great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised; he is to be revered above all gods” (96:4); “Our Lord is above all gods” (135:5); “Ascribe to Yahweh, [you] gods, ascribe to Yahweh glory and strength” (29:1, my trans.); “He is exalted above all gods” (97:7); “For Yahweh is a great god, and a great king above all gods” (95:3, my trans.). And so on. But it’s not just the Psalms. In Exodus Yahweh predicts that he will execute judgments “on all the gods of Egypt” (12:12). The author of Numbers then declares that that is indeed what happened: “Yahweh executed judgments against their gods” (33:4). There is no hint that Yahweh is the only God. Instead it is clearly implied that Egypt has her own gods, and Yahweh will defeat them.
When Yahweh gives his people the Ten Commandments, the first commandment implies the existence of other gods: “You shall have no other gods before me” (Exod. 20:3; see also Deut. 5:7). In Exodus 23:32–33 Israel is told not to covenant with or worship other gods; there is no suggestion that the gods of Israel’s neighbors do not exist.
The word 'trinity' appears nowhere in the Bible; the concept was finalized at the First Council of Nicaea in 325 CE after years of debate. It was an attempt to articulate Christianity's belief in the oneness of God with their claims about Jesus and their experiences of the spirit.
history of Trinity theories. Although early Christian theologians speculated in many ways on the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, no one clearly and fully asserted the doctrine of the Trinity as explained at the top of the main entry until around the end of the so-called Arian Controversy. (See 3.2 below and section 3.1 of the supplementary document on unitarianism.) Nonetheless, proponents of such theories always claim them to be in some sense founded on, or at least illustrated by, biblical texts.
I’m a Muslimah and just in case you guys don’t know, Islam is strictly a monotheistic religion. We believe in the same God as the Jewish people. The Bible, Torah and Quran all talk about the oness of God. So why do Christians claim that prophet Jesus (pbuh) is God? God has warned us that devil will try to trick us by cleverly trying to misguide us by oness of God. Can anyone please show me which passage in the Bible says that prophet Jesus (pbuh) claims that he is God???
Christians always use the water, steam, ice analogy when it comes to this question. One God in three forms.
You've got your father God, You've got Jesus who was half God here on earth. And you've got the holy spirit which is representative of God indwelling in people who are Christians.
To me the "holy spirit" term... fits the ice, steam, water analogy fairly well.
Jesus is a bit of a different story. And the problem I have with Jesus in the analogy is that Jesus was only half God. He was half man as well. He is a separate entity from God the father. The only way to get around this is that Jesus is now a spirit and doesn't have his human parts anymore. But it's always been troubling that Jesus is standing at the "right hand of God"... Because that sounds like two different beings.
Christians always use the water, steam, ice analogy when it comes to this question. One God in three forms.
You've got your father God, You've got Jesus who was half God here on earth. And you've got the holy spirit which is representative of God indwelling in people who are Christians.
To me the "holy spirit" term... fits the ice, steam, water analogy fairly well.
Jesus is a bit of a different story. And the problem I have with Jesus in the analogy is that Jesus was only half God. He was half man as well. He is a separate entity from God the father. The only way to get around this is that Jesus is now a spirit and doesn't have his human parts anymore. But it's always been troubling that Jesus is standing at the "right hand of God"... Because that sounds like two different beings.
That's not what Christianity teaches; rather, that Jesus was fully human and fully divine, not half and half.
One of the unexplainable mysteries.
But yes, the other points you brought up are hard to get around.
That's not what Christianity teaches; rather, that Jesus was fully human and fully divine, not half and half.
One of the unexplainable mysteries.
But yes, the other points you brought up are hard to get around.
IMO, it is inexplicable only if you retain a carnal or physical mindset about it. BEING is Spirit, period. God is Spirit and all that exists is Spirit manifesting in different physical forms. Spirit is "seeded" and develops in the human body in fetal form and after its physical demise and rebirth, it is fully Spirit.
When God incarnated His Holy Spirit in Jesus's physical body it was in fetal form. When he achieved perfect spiritual maturity and died, His Spirit was "born again" as the Comforter (Holy Spirit) to reside at the right hand of God as the head of our "born again" human Spirits.
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