Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm really sorry when anything I post doesn't make everyone happy. Even more sorry when I'm being facetious and people don't realize it...
Kind of like these gamblers (religious or not religious) who take out their frustrations on the dealers. Dealers are also best served to ignore these kinds of people. Not to take it personally and just keep dealing.
The author Gore Vidal was once asked what his purpose was in writing, and he responded, "to disturb".
In other words, good logic (preferably coupled with good writing) has no responsibility to 100% agree with all the tender sensibilities of the reader. It should challenge and expand and advance their thinking, not rubber stamp it. Good communication does not always make the recipient comfortable, nor does it always serve their best interests to do so.
Some people are perpetually upset by this, particularly those who are accustomed to unearned respect in the marketplace of ideas. But it is not your job to "make everyone happy". That is a recipe for frustration, disappointment and anxiety, as well as being bullied and taken advantage of, in the wider world, quite apart from the topic. No one can "make everyone happy" and should not be sad when they don't.
Of course, one can and generally should avoid gratuitous provocations, but sometimes, our interlocutors take the position that anything we say that doesn't agree with their dogma is gratuitous and should be left unsaid. If what success looks like to you is that you never hear a discouraging word ... you will not be very successful. Particularly with people coming from religious systems that are used to dictating everyone's thinking.
The author Gore Vidal was once asked what his purpose was in writing, and he responded, "to disturb".
In other words, good logic (preferably coupled with good writing) has no responsibility to 100% agree with all the tender sensibilities of the reader. It should challenge and expand and advance their thinking, not rubber stamp it. Good communication does not always make the recipient comfortable, nor does it always serve their best interests to do so.
Some people are perpetually upset by this, particularly those who are accustomed to unearned respect in the marketplace of ideas. But it is not your job to "make everyone happy". That is a recipe for frustration, disappointment and anxiety, as well as being bullied and taken advantage of, in the wider world, quite apart from the topic. No one can "make everyone happy" and should not be sad when they don't.
Of course, one can and generally should avoid gratuitous provocations, but sometimes, our interlocutors take the position that anything we say that doesn't agree with their dogma is gratuitous and should be left unsaid. If what success looks like to you is that you never hear a discouraging word ... you will not be very successful. Particularly with people coming from religious systems that are used to dictating everyone's thinking.
When I wrote, "I'm really sorry when anything I post doesn't make everyone happy. Even more sorry when I'm being facetious and people don't realize it..." I would like to think someone might have got the joke. That I was being facetious yet again, but I suspect my humor here may have failed badly with you too. Maybe my wife is right...
As for the rest, thanks! I suspect I may be in very good company with Gore Vidal in this forum given all you explain, and just for the record and/or to be clear, I feel no "responsibility to 100% agree with all tender sensibilities of the reader," nor to insure the recipient of my comments is comfortable reading them. Lots of folks "perpetually upset" by one thing or another, but no matter to me.
As the record shows. I just "call 'em the way I see 'em," and invite all to either agree or disagree with me as they wish. Just keep it honest, civil, adult and please don't talk about my moma, and we're good.
The author Gore Vidal was once asked what his purpose was in writing, and he responded, "to disturb".
In other words, good logic (preferably coupled with good writing) has no responsibility to 100% agree with all the tender sensibilities of the reader. It should challenge and expand and advance their thinking, not rubber stamp it. Good communication does not always make the recipient comfortable, nor does it always serve their best interests to do so.
Some people are perpetually upset by this, particularly those who are accustomed to unearned respect in the marketplace of ideas. But it is not your job to "make everyone happy". That is a recipe for frustration, disappointment and anxiety, as well as being bullied and taken advantage of, in the wider world, quite apart from the topic. No one can "make everyone happy" and should not be sad when they don't.
Of course, one can and generally should avoid gratuitous provocations, but sometimes, our interlocutors take the position that anything we say that doesn't agree with their dogma is gratuitous and should be left unsaid. If what success looks like to you is that you never hear a discouraging word ... you will not be very successful. Particularly with people coming from religious systems that are used to dictating everyone's thinking.
The writing in this forum bears little resemblance to Gore Vidal’s. It takes “disturbing” to a great new level. Let us not take ourselves too seriously.
The writing in this forum bears little resemblance to Gore Vidal’s. It takes “disturbing” to a great new level. Let us not take ourselves too seriously.
I did not and do not equate myself with Vidal or any other great writer. I simply cited his wisdom on the topic and pointed out that just because someone finds what you write irritating or inconvenient doesn't make it wrong.
I did not and do not equate myself with Vidal or any other great writer. I simply cited his wisdom on the topic and pointed out that just because someone finds what you write irritating or inconvenient doesn't make it wrong.
nor does it make it profound. or with any great depth, meaning, or insight.
I did not and do not equate myself with Vidal or any other great writer. I simply cited his wisdom on the topic and pointed out that just because someone finds what you write irritating or inconvenient doesn't make it wrong.
The purpose of writing is to communicate with clarity. Blaming the reader for one’s lack of communication skill is pitiful.
The purpose of writing is to communicate with clarity. Blaming the reader for one’s lack of communication skill is pitiful.
I've taken some writing courses, and that was actually a topic discussed at one point. The conclusion that was reached, at least by one professor, was that when a passage seems unclear, it could very well be the writer. Or it could be the reader. I think we've all experienced situations where we read something and think it doesn't make much sense, only to return later, reread it, and then think, 'Oh, I get it now'. And sometimes it's a function of both the writer (or speaker) and the reader (or listener). It's often a mismatch in communications styles, as seen particularly when you have a non-native speaker/writer interacting with a native speaker.
Much I have read in this forum, written by religious people, reminds me of people I have met while gambling...
I will admit to being a gambler. One who very much enjoys craps and black jack in particular. Not a problem gambler, because I always only allot about $300 for a night of gambling enjoyment and if/when that's gone, I stop. Last two times at the tables I won, however. That's most certainly my preferred outcome.
Not what this thread is about though. What I read from religious people in this forum reminds me of the many people I have met gambling who strongly believe their little gambling rituals actually help them win money and/or keep them from losing. I've played black jack with these people who don't really know how to play according to the odds. Instead they play with some sort of "sense" about what to bet. Completely against the odds, but because they can and do sometimes win, they continue believing they can somehow know better, sense better and beat the odds. These people can be frustrating because they often can cause others around them to lose money. There's no talking to these people either. They believe what they believe no matter the odds to the contrary. Almost like they don't want to know better!
At the craps table also for example. People will blow some sort of wish onto the dice before they roll. Pick up the dice before rolling in a very specific way they also believe will help them roll a good number. Others place bets based on some sort of weird notion "it's time" to do so. The worst bets according to the odds, but still, they "have faith" their system or belief works. In particular they hang on to those times when winning supports their beliefs despite the odds. Conveniently forgetting the losses.
Is it just me or is this dynamic not very similar to how people describe their belief in how God operates?
Not my faith in God, as my faith is not based on "rituals" as I identify with no established religious belief.
Keep in mind that gambling is just sort of a "fun" activity for people, unless they have an addiction. "Quirky" probably adds to the fun for them. I think many realize it is silly, but hey, being "quirky" is fun.
I do see this from where you do in some instances of people with religious rituals, just as some with gambling rituals. They won't see it if they are doing it themselves though.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
