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The principle involved is that of objective good and objective evil. It is possible to discern these things.
Having spent many years as a catholic, using the word 'objective' to define much in catholicism is rather silly. There are some very good things about the catholic church. Objectivity is not one of them.
Objective good? Now you are arguing against your own religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Having spent many years as a catholic, using the word 'objective' to define much in catholicism is rather silly. There are some very good things about the catholic church. Objectivity is not one of them.
This is all beside the point of what we were actually talking about.
Catholic devotional practices were compared to witchcraft.
Yes, one is objectively good and one is objectively evil. There is no equivalence.
This is all beside the point of what we were actually talking about.
Catholic devotional practices were compared to witchcraft.
Yes, one is objectively good and one is objectively evil. There is no equivalence.
I don't think you understand the way discussions work. It isn't like a court of law where one must stick to the narrow conversation. In a chat, which this essentially is, people may digress a bit, but with things that are a bigger part of a topic.
Let me give you an example of catholic objectivity.
The year is 1965. A boy (that would be me) is taught by a priest that masturbation is a sin that must be confessed. He's just 16. So it happens. He's a good (and new) catholic, so he dutifully goes to confession when it happens, and the priest is rather stern about it and talks about self-control, blah, blah, blah. One Saturday afternoon it's a different priest in the confessional (it's a small town, so a priest from the city is occasionally sent down to help out). The boy goes to confession and the priest says, "Oh, just take a **** [if they bleep it out, it's a 4 letter word for urine] and forget about it". Is that the objectivity you're talking about.
Or the cousin who married a woman who was not a very good choice. They had a kid. And then she left him and they divorced. He was barred from taking the sacraments. Until a year later when someone else in the church found a loophole -- the woman, after she was born, was never baptized, so the marriage (and I guess having the kid) -- didn't count. Sacraments resumed. That kind of objectivity?
Let me give you an example of catholic objectivity.
The year is 1965. A boy (that would be me) is taught by a priest that masturbation is a sin that must be confessed. He's just 16. So it happens. He's a good (and new) catholic, so he dutifully goes to confession when it happens, and the priest is rather stern about it and talks about self-control, blah, blah, blah. One Saturday afternoon it's a different priest in the confessional (it's a small town, so a priest from the city is occasionally sent down to help out). The boy goes to confession and the priest says, "Oh, just take a **** [if they bleep it out, it's a 4 letter word for urine] and forget about it". Is that the objectivity you're talking about.
But it is objective, because one of the Priests was clearly right and one was clearly wrong. The Church has objective teachings on this topic that are not dependent on the whims of an incompetent Priest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Or the cousin who married a woman who was not a very good choice. They had a kid. And then she left him and they divorced. He was barred from taking the sacraments. Until a year later when someone else in the church found a loophole -- the woman, after she was born, was never baptized, so the marriage (and I guess having the kid) -- didn't count. Sacraments resumed. That kind of objectivity?
Yes, because marriages are always presumed valid unless proven otherwise. This is a perfect example of objectivity, actually.
...But why was he barred from receiving the Sacraments?
But it is objective, because one of the Priests was clearly right and one was clearly wrong. The Church has objective teachings on this topic that are not dependent on the whims of an incompetent Priest.
Yes, because marriages are always presumed valid unless proven otherwise. This is a perfect example of objectivity, actually.
...But why was he barred from receiving the Sacraments?
People have all kinds of opinions and feel all kinds of ways. Somebody is right, and somebody is wrong.
Shouldn't we make an effort to figure out who's right and who's wrong?
Yes indeed we certainly should, and I've posted many a comment and started a few threads stressing the importance of doing so...
How does someone like you suggest we all go about doing so?
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