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That is your opinion of other people and what they ought to do. You are free to hold that. I believe everyone takes away what they are meant to take away from their practice. That is what karma is.
I don't know what you have learnt about karma from Buddhism. When ever I read anyone explain any concept of Buddhism it gives me a headache, a whole lot of words that never amount to anything meaningful to me. I don't know how Buddha's clear 8 fold path and the 4 Truths (?) became a jumble of words.
I mean no disrespect, it is my failure to understand.
I appreciate the way you said that. I have little understanding of Hinduism.
As for me, and what I have been taught and have learned, and what seems reasonable to me -- karma is somewhat self-determined, in that if we are being mindful in our words and actions the cause and effect should be in line with what we expect, but that if we are not being mindful the cause and effect will be negative. For example, if Johnny hangs out with Al Capone, the cause and effect will be very different than if he hangs out with Billy Graham. So if Johnny is wise, he'll pick the right friends. If Billy decides to shoplift, particularly as a pattern, eventually the cause and effect will probably give him a record and possibly some jail time. On the other hand if he becomes a deacon in his church, his karma (cause and effect) will probably be much more positive.
Yes, there are Buddhists who see karma as some sort of cosmic justice system. I don't see that. And that's a good reason for thinking through one's beliefs in an organized way.
I'm sitting here laughing to myself about the way this thread has gone.
I happened to read an old post where someone has mentioned a number of religious creeds, so I simply asked if anyone had through through their personal creed, or if they simply used their 'church's' creed.
Then someone asked if I had one, and I said I had posted it in my blog section.
I didn't ask anyone to go look at it. I didn't ask anyone to share the beliefs I have.
So I guess I need to restate. You are free to believe in whatever you wish. If you do read my creed (which I said is a work in progress), or you do read some post of mine...do with it as you wish. Agree, disagree...that's fine. I just stated what I believe and I have asked no one to accept that or agree with that. I specifically did not post it in a thread, and for an obvious reason.
I appreciate the way you said that. I have little understanding of Hinduism.
As for me, and what I have been taught and have learned, and what seems reasonable to me -- karma is somewhat self-determined, in that if we are being mindful in our words and actions the cause and effect should be in line with what we expect, but that if we are not being mindful the cause and effect will be negative. For example, if Johnny hangs out with Al Capone, the cause and effect will be very different than if he hangs out with Billy Graham. So if Johnny is wise, he'll pick the right friends. If Billy decides to shoplift, particularly as a pattern, eventually the cause and effect will probably give him a record and possibly some jail time. On the other hand if he becomes a deacon in his church, his karma (cause and effect) will probably be much more positive.
Yes, there are Buddhists who see karma as some sort of cosmic justice system. I don't see that. And that's a good reason for thinking through one's beliefs in an organized way.
Karma is the residual effect of actions performed with intent. The effect can bring one closer to spirituality and enlightenment, or distance them. We either go with where our impulses lead us or we mindfully exert control over our impulse to stay centered. Both are effect of karma.
Karma is the residual effect of actions performed with intent. The effect can bring one closer to spirituality and enlightenment, or distance them. We either go with where our impulses lead us or we mindfully exert control over our impulse to stay centered. Both are effect of karma.
I don't think I disagree with that. But I think the key is what I bolded -- it's us exerting control over staying centered, or not. Not some divine power.
A very good example of this was when, as a principal, I was going to go into what might be a difficult parent conference. I will sit for perhaps 15 minutes in my office, door closed, and practice focused thinking...mindfulness. Mindful of what I needed to accomplish. Mindful of how to bring about the end result that I wanted. Sometimes it was to be reassuring, sometimes to calm a situation down, sometimes to be firm and unyielding. It just depended on the situation. The point was focusing on one thing and making it happen. Karma would do the rest. Karma based, to a large extent, on how well I accomplished my goal for that conference. It rarely failed me. It had nothing to do with a god or higher power.
I don't think I disagree with that. But I think the key is what I bolded -- it's us exerting control over staying centered, or not. Not some divine power.
A very good example of this was when, as a principal, I was going to go into what might be a difficult parent conference. I will sit for perhaps 15 minutes in my office, door closed, and practice focused thinking...mindfulness. Mindful of what I needed to accomplish. Mindful of how to bring about the end result that I wanted. Sometimes it was to be reassuring, sometimes to calm a situation down, sometimes to be firm and unyielding. It just depended on the situation. The point was focusing on one thing and making it happen. Karma would do the rest. Karma based, to a large extent, on how well I accomplished my goal for that conference. It rarely failed me. It had nothing to do with a god or higher power.
AA thinks otherwise. When all else fails for the addict they call upon a higher power, what you call as “us”.
AA thinks otherwise. When all else fails for the addict they call upon a higher power, what you call as “us”.
Huh?
Why bring is AA in this discussion as some great decider of things?
There are many self-help groups that believe in...well...self help.
I think you're really grasping at straws there when yo consider that some independent researchers claim that AA's actual success rate is more like 10% than the 50% that AA self-proclaims.
it's interesting. when thoughtful responses are offered, expressing a variety of views, insights, and observations to the discussion, which is after all the purpose for this forum and these threads, they are flippantly dismissed as "you want to argue" or "so what." while at the same time boasting about "being fully allowed to think" yet all the while condemning others for "not thinking."
my observation is that if someone claims to know that others are "not thinking" during their reading and recitation and other rituals, and condemns others as "not being allowed to think" then whatever "creed" they are actually following (versus whatever collection of words may be posted the day before on a blog in a public forum) leans heavily on condemning others, and claims of superiority and supremacy.
You mean like simply posting one-liners like "that's just your opinion?" Or "You. Just. Don't. Get it?"
I am trying to see the difference between a creed and belief.
It has never occurred to me that when someone repeats a mantra, or the Pledge, or kneel to pray, that they are not thinking. How or why does anyone need to prove that those acts mean something to them, and to whom? It means whatever it means to them, that is karma.
You remind me of when I was a young boy and taken to church where we did a lot of standing, kneeling, praying, sitting, then standing, kneeling, praying and sitting again...
All the while the priest was saying something that somehow let the adults know when to do all those things. I did the same things, and I have to admit I did so without thinking. Not thinking about what I was supposed to be thinking anyway. Then I got older, and I got to thinking about what I was doing.
"The rest is history" as they say. In this case my history...
I appreciate the way you said that. I have little understanding of Hinduism.
As for me, and what I have been taught and have learned, and what seems reasonable to me -- karma is somewhat self-determined, in that if we are being mindful in our words and actions the cause and effect should be in line with what we expect, but that if we are not being mindful the cause and effect will be negative. For example, if Johnny hangs out with Al Capone, the cause and effect will be very different than if he hangs out with Billy Graham. So if Johnny is wise, he'll pick the right friends. If Billy decides to shoplift, particularly as a pattern, eventually the cause and effect will probably give him a record and possibly some jail time. On the other hand if he becomes a deacon in his church, his karma (cause and effect) will probably be much more positive.
Yes, there are Buddhists who see karma as some sort of cosmic justice system. I don't see that. And that's a good reason for thinking through one's beliefs in an organized way.
I don't believe in karma as defined or explained here...
"(in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences.
INFORMAL
destiny or fate, following as effect from cause."
You mean like simply posting one-liners like "that's just your opinion?" Or "You. Just. Don't. Get it?"
Sure you're not catholic? You're very good at BINGO!
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