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Of course, and all well and good...As long as they "stay in their lane" when it comes to beliefs that negatively affect and/or impose on others. That's the "fly in the ointment" most secular thinking people are always trying to push back upon.
For example, even giving voice to the sometimes taboo thoughts we atheists think (because we are able to question the most basic assumptions that are unquestionable in various religions) can be seen as "pushing" simply because coming into contact with such thinking is acutely uncomfortable for some. This is frustrating for an unbeliever because it creates this subtext of "oh please just go away and be quiet" when we have as much right as anyone to express a view, particularly in a place like this where people supposedly come specifically TO have such discussions (though sometimes they just come to "preach" and expect the same unquestioning acceptance they overtly get in their churches).
On the other side of the coin, at least one unbeliever somewhere here expressed recently an objection to people praying for him without his permission. This has never bothered me because I don't regard prayer as having the slightest utility in terms of its primary stated purpose to change the flow of events and I don't give a fig if it makes someone feel superior to me in between their own ears. I would imagine this is true of most of my ilk.
But people are different, and if we are to be respectful of each other, we should never be actually impertinent and, where reasonably avoidable, avoid the perception of being intrusive.
It will be tricky questioning the basic assumptions because in religions with God, God is the final authority. This structure has a purpose. I have my theories. One is that it helps people stand their ground, similar to "my husband said so.."
From a purely atheistic, naturalistic point of view, how is this a problem? This is just nature working. If society deems a behavior as negative, it discourages it. From an atheistic point of view, how can it be defined as "wrong"?
I am an atheist and I don't define it as wrong. And, for this atheist, if there is no solution, then it is not a "problem". It is just people "throwing forth" some information, which, by the way, is the etymological denotation of the word "problem".
I'd have to modify that analogy to make it work. I think many people, especially in regard to religion, have a tendency to revisit the same rivers repeatedly but lack the ability to revisit those rivers with new eyes. Kind of like Learnme's cement theory. Not saying it can't be done...it can be...but it's not done often...or at least not often enough.
It definitely helps to hear it in the same context. Even so, from my experience, the same conclusions won't be drawn if the motivations are not the same. Two people can watch the same presentation and get different things out of it. For example, I once read a book that set me on a new trajectory. Every time I recommended it, what worked for me didn't work for the other. A few even looked at me like I had 5 heads.
I think some of our members ought to remember how dominant the Greek gods were.
How dominant the Roman gods were.
I think the point is that they were dominant, but now the view is that something new and everlasting has taken hold - the New Testament. That is what is meant by it being prolific. In some ways, survival of that which fits.
I think the point is that they were dominant, but now the view is that something new and everlasting has taken hold - the New Testament. That is what is meant by it being prolific. In some ways, survival of that which fits.
I'm not knowledgeable on the history of Christianity but I'm pretty sure there was some, as Golden would say, "might makes right" going on. The crusades comes to mind.
Ha, I was just going off on this the other day on one of the other forums.
Back in the 1960s, around 4th grade, we had these sessions where we sat around a record player and listened to this series called "Fact or Opinion". I remember this deep voice intoning those words at the beginning of each record.
The voice would read a little story, and then give a series of statements about what was just read at the end, and we had to decide if what the statement said was factual or just an opinion. I thought this was great fun, and it obviously impressed me enough that more than fifty years later I still remember it.
It's become very apparent to me in the past five decades that a lot of people weren't lucky enough to get this lesson. Of course, I have not escaped believing things to be true when in fact they were skewed by my own perceptions. "Fact or Opinion" is a lifelong lesson.
Something I learned as life went on is to simply ask, when hearing something for the first time, "Is this true?" Sometimes the answer is obvious, but sometimes it requires some work to find the answer.
I would have loved those sessions, and it's nice to read something more in line with my thinking when it comes to the importance of making these sorts of distinctions. Thanks!
Why do people have to "stay in their own lane"?
Why is that philosophy superior to "Natural Selection/Survival of the Fittest" and "Might Makes Right"?
Because some people think so?
Why do humans deploy armies to other areas...or design, build, and deploy offensive munitions? Isn't that "getting into another lane" and compelling beliefs as to how things should be to the ultimate extent?
How about...I'm not only gonna refuse to "stay in my own lane", I declare all lanes to be mine...and others can then stay out of MY lanes. HOWBOWDAH?!!
That is how it's been for most of human history.
Good question, and the answer requires better definition and specifics than I previously commented about...
We can hardly keep from getting into other's lanes, but ultimately the sentiment is to keep our opinions and beliefs to ourselves rather than impose them on others. That said, we are forever as a society "imposing on others," so where does that leave us?
Far as I'm concerned, it leaves us having to make good decisions about our laws that govern how we are to respect one another's freedoms. We don't often make good decisions along those lines, but on the other hand, we haven't done too badly either. The U.S. Constitution was a pretty good decision made by our founding fathers for example. A secular form of government is another.
The fact that we all too often get it wrong, go backwards instead of forwards, is simply the ongoing strong evidence that we humans don't make good decisions as often as we should. Sheet happens as a result, but no matter how much sheet hits the fan, fortunately there are good people who are forever trying to tow the line of progress, justice and peace despite all the backwardness that will forever stand in the way.
This is simply the human condition as it has persisted since we lived in caves...
I'd have to modify that analogy to make it work. I think many people, especially in regard to religion, have a tendency to revisit the same rivers repeatedly but lack the ability to revisit those rivers with new eyes. Kind of like Learnme's cement theory. Not saying it can't be done...it can be...but it's not done often...or at least not often enough.
Reminds me of the man who drowned crossing the river because he was told the average depth was only waste deep...
Sometimes people are good at focusing only on some facts, but not always the most important ones.
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