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I wish I could understand where you are coming from and/or your questions, but it seems we're making that common mistake of mixing what is subjectively good or bad with what is objectively true or not.
How is nature good or bad?
04-22-2022, 04:02 PM
xd4t5gv
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
How is nature good or bad?
It's not it just is! Only we as subjective beings determine what actions/consequences are deemed 'good' and 'bad.' Moral values are subjective! We label them as such on a number of factors, science, biology, psychology, philosophy/logic, religious beliefs (primarily objectifying our own senses as being of the gods/God), etc.
Of course, and all well and good...As long as they "stay in their lane" when it comes to beliefs that negatively affect and/or impose on others. That's the "fly in the ointment" most secular thinking people are always trying to push back upon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
bold above,
false premise
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
Bold above,
could mean anything
so then tell readers what is meant when you use the phrase "most secular thinking people"
and while you're at it, you can explain the convoluted construct of "most are always trying to"
Either locally or beyond local all religions were dominant at some point, as were various leaders and even nations. It doesn't last. But the people inside the current reality don't like to admit that...or at least see that.
Just a thought here, but perhaps it doesn't matter that it won't last hundreds of years from now. What matters is that right now, the current idea of God can be used to their advantage. If something new comes up and is advantageous, they will follow that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
I know that experience!
I am an atheist but I do like to understand people's views about God. Perhaps this experience lends support to Pantheism where the reason for so many different religions is that people draw different conclusions about their experience with reality and reality is equated with God.
It's not it just is! Only we as subjective beings determine what actions/consequences are deemed 'good' and 'bad.' Moral values are subjective! We label them as such on a number of factors, science, biology, psychology, philosophy/logic, religious beliefs (primarily objectifying our own senses as being of the gods/God), etc.
But if we're just natural, physical beings, how can anything be good or bad?
Do you consider the lion immoral for killing the zebra?
Likewise, how is it good or bad how one person treats another, IF we are just natural, physical creatures. Things like morality, good, or bad don't apply.
But if we're just natural, physical beings, how can anything be good or bad?
Because we exist as emotional, thinking beings. The concept of good and bad depends on our existence, it is not an objective thing in itself. The universe does not care. We as people in that universe do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Do you consider the lion immoral for killing the zebra?
Lions are not people. That is why they have a different rule set. For lions, it is OK to kill other lions if it means they get to rule the harem, or to kill young lions if it mean they get to mate with their mother.
That is why you can not compare us to lions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Likewise, how is it good or bad how one person treats another, IF we are just natural, physical creatures. Things like morality, good, or bad don't apply.
Of course it does, we evolved to live in groups, and our innate morality is a part of that.
Because we exist as emotional, thinking beings. The concept of good and bad depends on our existence, it is not an objective thing in itself. The universe does not care. We as people in that universe do.
Lions are not people. That is why they have a different rule set. For lions, it is OK to kill other lions if it means they get to rule the harem, or to kill young lions if it mean they get to mate with their mother.
That is why you can not compare us to lions.
Of course it does, we evolved to live in groups, and our innate morality is a part of that.
Right...we can't be compared to lions.
Lions haven't figured out how to kill thousands of other lions in two seconds. And if we assign the label "war" to that conduct...receiving a commendation for doing it.
Is it our "innate morality" that facilitates that?
Because we exist as emotional, thinking beings. The concept of good and bad depends on our existence, it is not an objective thing in itself. The universe does not care. We as people in that universe do.
Lions are not people. That is why they have a different rule set. For lions, it is OK to kill other lions if it means they get to rule the harem, or to kill young lions if it mean they get to mate with their mother.
That is why you can not compare us to lions.
Of course it does, we evolved to live in groups, and our innate morality is a part of that.
The first point you made is why I like to think we are the Universe observing itself.
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