What is the concept of heaven to you? (spirits, ghosts, evidence)

[mensaguy]

Originally Posted by mordant

A little ways northeast of Ann Arbor, MI, is Hell. Lovely place. You should check it out some time ;-)

I heard it froze over.

[normstad]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

How do you know that (bolded above), normstad?

Those that make the assertion that such places exist bear the burden of proof. The bible is just the claim, not the proof.

It's like me asking you to prove that Leprechauns or Faeries don't exist. After all, many in Ireland to this day fervently believe in them. Does that make them true? Sure, as true as the belief of a heaven or hell, but only to the person who has the belief.

Belief does not equal fact.

[normstad]

Originally Posted by mordant

IDK what Normstad would answer but I wouldn't put it that they are imaginary, but that they are asserted without evidence. So the burden of proof (how one would know that heaven or hell literally exist) would be on the one asserting that they do.

Yup, as you can see, that exactly was my answer.

[jimmiej]

Originally Posted by normstad

Those that make the assertion that such places exist bear the burden of proof. The bible is just the claim, not the proof.

It's like me asking you to prove that Leprechauns or Faeries don't exist. After all, many in Ireland to this day fervently believe in them. Does that make them true? Sure, as true as the belief of a heaven or hell, but only to the person who has the belief.

Belief does not equal fact.

You were the one who made an assertion. Belief does not equal fact.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by mensaguy

I heard it froze over.

Yes every winter the locals wait for the headline, "HELL FREEZES OVER". It's a local tradition.

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by normstad

Those that make the assertion that such places exist bear the burden of proof. The bible is just the claim, not the proof.

It's like me asking you to prove that Leprechauns or Faeries don't exist. After all, many in Ireland to this day fervently believe in them. Does that make them true? Sure, as true as the belief of a heaven or hell, but only to the person who has the belief.

Belief does not equal fact.

And you "believe" that "belief does not equal fact"...so, that's your conundrum to figure out.
I just love it when people use examples and comparisons of things that are claimed to exist on the planet we are living on (kinda easy to check it out), with things that supposedly exist in another realm, like Heaven, Hell, and the Deities of Religions.
You can easily surveil Loch Ness for the Monster, the North Pole for Santa, your garden for Gnomes, the space under you bed for ghouls, etc...other realms that are not in our "living space", not so much.
But for some reason many like to use those things for comparison.
Also, the "No Evidence" basis for Atheism is simply a Argument From Ignorance...especially when, 1. You HAVE been presented evidence (just none you accept), and, 2. There may be evidence you are not aware of.
The only logical conclusion you can draw from a "No Evidence" premise, is "There is no evidence I am aware of" or "I don't know"...and the automatic default to Atheism is just as much a "Belief Position" as the belief in Deity Gods.
There is a logical basis for Agnosticism, but not Atheism.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

How do you know that (bolded above), normstad?

His "No God" told him that was the default situation. Most atheists listen to their "No God" as if it is fact. I know because I used to be one.

[normstad]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

His "No God" told him that was the default situation. Most atheists listen to their "No God" as if it is fact. I know because I used to be one.

Wrong.

As has been stated here many times, atheists do not believe in a god or gods as they have seen no evidence to convince them such critters exist.

And even if evidence arises that some kind of god entity does exist, that still doesn't necessarily be evidence that the god of the bible exists.

And if that god of the bible exists, he has a lot of questions to answer why that one thinks we should be enslaved to it. Also, why that god never talks about his wife, Asherah.

[jimmiej]

Originally Posted by normstad

Wrong.

As has been stated here many times, atheists do not believe in a god or gods as they have seen no evidence to convince them such critters exist.

And even if evidence arises that some kind of god entity does exist, that still doesn't necessarily be evidence that the god of the bible exists.

And if that god of the bible exists, he has a lot of questions to answer why that one thinks we should be enslaved to it. Also, why that god never talks about his wife, Asherah.

How do you know heaven and hell are imaginary?

[mordant]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

How do you know heaven and hell are imaginary?

Lol Jimmie come on now he states his exact position and reasoning in the very post you are quoting and responding to. His actual claim is that there is no evidence for the claims of heaven and hell, so he lacks anything with which to afford belief to either. Where is your evidence for these claims?