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Old 11-26-2022, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
18,091 posts, read 11,890,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
I struggle with this … I’d like to believe it’s the beautiful place the nde have referenced where even the flowers are singing…

Or

Is it a heaven … individualized based on my life’s choices
Because we have free will…. This will also mirror
The not so proud moments and how I negatively affected
Others
Some have imagined that is what hell is like (e.g., the movie What Dreams May Come, where for example people with super negative attitudes in life spend eternity embedded in the ground, grousing about how miserable they are, nursing old hurt feelings, etc) but I have never heard anyone imagine heaven thusly diluted.

My thought is that nothing is to say that any afterlife would not be SSDD (Same, er, stuff going on -- different dimension). I mean if god made this life as it is, it's not super reassuring how his design of the afterlife would improve on it. The idea loses its appeal unless you assume it's some kind of perfected / glorified version of this life.

There are a few practical problems about living eternally, no matter what heaven were really like. I am not sure we would be recognizably human if we were to pull that off and always enjoy it, literally forever. Our minds would have to be reconfigured, I think, to not have nearly so much hedonic tone, so that when you eventually encounter something previously experienced, it still seems novel and interesting.
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Old 11-26-2022, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Walt Disney World
19,424 posts, read 11,535,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Some have imagined that is what hell is like (e.g., the movie What Dreams May Come, where for example people with super negative attitudes in life spend eternity embedded in the ground, grousing about how miserable they are, nursing old hurt feelings, etc) but I have never heard anyone imagine heaven thusly diluted.

My thought is that nothing is to say that any afterlife would not be SSDD (Same, er, stuff going on -- different dimension). I mean if god made this life as it is, it's not super reassuring how his design of the afterlife would improve on it. The idea loses its appeal unless you assume it's some kind of perfected / glorified version of this life.

There are a few practical problems about living eternally, no matter what heaven were really like. I am not sure we would be recognizably human if we were to pull that off and always enjoy it, literally forever. Our minds would have to be reconfigured, I think, to not have nearly so much hedonic tone, so that when you eventually encounter something previously experienced, it still seems novel and interesting.
The presence of God will take care of all that.
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Old 11-26-2022, 07:16 PM
 
Location: NSW
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It’s a hard and difficult concept.
I’d like to think of it as a place of eternal rest and peace, hence the RIP expression.
I am not a Christian exclusivist, especially after plenty of heated arguments with Evangelicals and Fundamentalists on other sites and platforms , and accept all religions and non-religious can enter the next realm - unless they choose to reject it.
I am not so sure about seeing all your loved ones again though, as is popularly portrayed.
Other ideas like the dead “watching over” the living, I am not so sure about either, even if it sounds great in theory.
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Old 11-26-2022, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Southern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayle White View Post
What if scenario:

What if your idea of heaven is to see your grandparents again, and their idea of heaven is to be a kid again?
What if in heaven you and your grandparents are the same age?
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Southern California
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Quote:
What is the concept of heaven to you?
As I look around and see America the beautiful with mountains, rivers, and lakes, countrysides with various trees especially lovely during the autumn months, flower gardens with multitudes of different varieties, homes large and small in cities and towns across the fruited plain.

I see universities and places of worship. I see relatives and friends, I hear sweet music, and I see happy, smiling faces. I see hugs, kisses and love.

This is my concept of one Heaven - the Natural Love Heaven. It's very similar to earth, except the sun is always shining and there are no shadows, no earthquakes, hurricanes, rain, etc.

The second Heaven where Jesus, his disciples and followers reside is known as the Celestial Heavens. It's similar to the first Heaven, except all who reside there are considered Divine Angels. Their souls are completely filled with God's Divine Love and they are at-one with Him in His attributes of love, compassion, caring, etc.
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Old 11-27-2022, 02:27 AM
 
Location: PRC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
All of which begs the question: why aren't Christians offing themselves in droves to get to their real home? Especially those who "know" that's what it is?

What is the purpose of god having us be "embroiled in a limited experience of humanness"? With god it is always this roundabout business of condemning us so he can save us, limiting us before he can liberate us. Christians are so spot-on about everything that seems wrong about this life, but their solution is always conveniently beyond the grave, after it's too late to file a warranty claim for non-performance!
Depends on your perspective or beliefs. Just a idea to consider which might offer some explanation perhaps?
If this Earth School is exactly that, a school for the soul or spirit to learn about the things which being human can teach us. Things such as the differences between right-brain (artistic, imaginary, etc) and left-brain (logical, etc) thinking. Things such as emotions and how we can overcome the temporary rush of emotion which we, as humans, often feel. Things such as different life circumstances (rich/poor, saint/despot, etc) and the problems and solutions which present themselves in that scenario.

Certain things are inherently human and as such allow us to experience these things in a human body or container. If we are allowed to experience unlimited Earth School classes(lives) then we can learn whatever our spirit needs to learn, and it time is also an Earth School experience, then once we leave this school, we dont need to worry about when in time we reincarnate to take another class, because we can choose any time we like. Like our spirit opening a book and choosing a page or taking a movie from the shelf and putting it in the projector.

Performance is judged by our own spirit as to whether we have made the best use of the class at Earth School and whether we have achieved our objectives for this lifetime class or not. Graduation is when we finally decide we have learned enough in Earth School to move on to another School and then we finish Earth School altogether. Then we start another series of lessons to learn and for our spirit to learn other stuff on another planet in another dimension. That is how our spirit grows nearer to perfection.
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Old 11-27-2022, 02:36 AM
 
Location: PRC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
I don’t have any answers Mordant….
But I think it is taught as a sin for “religious” type Christian’s to commit suicide. There is a big difference between “religious” and “spiritual.”

But most of the NDE experiences aren’t with Christians — they happen from people of all types of religions/belief systems and many agnostics, scientists, and atheists. Those from a Hindu background or contemporary Advaita are fascinating to read — so are the NDEs from atheists and scientists.
And most all recognize at some level they’ve been there before and it’s HOME

It appears those experiencing the nature of God/the Devine during an NDE are shown it in whatever form they can best experience/accept it.

UVA (University of Virginia) has a whole department studying NDEs.
Mostly you get a “taste” of it in an NDE, but there is a boundary most of them can’t cross if they are to return to their bodies.
But they have the understanding and get a glimpse of what’s across that boundary as their spiritual “home” or as some Christians would call — heaven.

There are also Out-of-body experiences (OBE) also known as Astral Projection, which allow people to be completely sentient, aware, and conscious (like normal waking state) while leaving their physical body behind for a while. It sounds fantastic but there are many people who do this, not many can do it on-demand, but some can. The books of William Buhlman and Robert Monroe (and the Monroe Institute) are a good place to start for anyone who wants to delve further into this. Also, the AstralPulse forum is dedicated to folks who want to know more.
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Old 11-27-2022, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
18,091 posts, read 11,890,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Depends on your perspective or beliefs. Just a idea to consider which might offer some explanation perhaps?
If this Earth School is exactly that, a school for the soul or spirit to learn about the things which being human can teach us. Things such as the differences between right-brain (artistic, imaginary, etc) and left-brain (logical, etc) thinking. Things such as emotions and how we can overcome the temporary rush of emotion which we, as humans, often feel. Things such as different life circumstances (rich/poor, saint/despot, etc) and the problems and solutions which present themselves in that scenario.

Certain things are inherently human and as such allow us to experience these things in a human body or container. If we are allowed to experience unlimited Earth School classes(lives) then we can learn whatever our spirit needs to learn, and it time is also an Earth School experience, then once we leave this school, we dont need to worry about when in time we reincarnate to take another class, because we can choose any time we like. Like our spirit opening a book and choosing a page or taking a movie from the shelf and putting it in the projector.

Performance is judged by our own spirit as to whether we have made the best use of the class at Earth School and whether we have achieved our objectives for this lifetime class or not. Graduation is when we finally decide we have learned enough in Earth School to move on to another School and then we finish Earth School altogether. Then we start another series of lessons to learn and for our spirit to learn other stuff on another planet in another dimension. That is how our spirit grows nearer to perfection.
I long since gave up speculating and imagining contorted explanations for why things are as they are, when there is a very simple explanation: life is not directed or personal. It's just stuff happening. It makes way more sense that way.

And the best part is: if you want to learn things from it, you still can, without it being part of some sort of Plan. That kind of personal growth is just as available to you whether or not you believe in, e.g., reincarnation or a Divine Plan.
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Old 11-28-2022, 09:28 PM
 
8,896 posts, read 4,133,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand&Salt View Post
Never posted here but I want to hear people's opinions, not an endless stream of Bible verses.
The Christian version of heaven doesn't sound all that appealing and sometimes I think I'd rather not "go", lol. Saying this as a struggling believer...................
Don't need an endless stream of Bible verses because those called to Heaven have two (2) jobs to do:
1 ) they will serve mankind living on Earth as 'priests' taking care of spiritual responsibilities for people living on Earth.
2 ) they will serve mankind living on Earth as 'kings' taking care of governmental duties towards people living on Earth.
- see Revelation 5:9-10; 20:6
In other words, the majority of people can gain everlasting life on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:14 AM
 
60,252 posts, read 36,005,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Don't need an endless stream of Bible verses because those called to Heaven have two (2) jobs to do:
1 ) they will serve mankind living on Earth as 'priests' taking care of spiritual responsibilities for people living on Earth.
2 ) they will serve mankind living on Earth as 'kings' taking care of governmental duties towards people living on Earth.
- see Revelation 5:9-10; 20:6
In other words, the majority of people can gain everlasting life on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
Sorry, but an eternal life of meeting the demands of defecation and urination is simply not remotely appealing to me.
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