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Old 04-27-2022, 02:37 PM
Location: equator
10,007 posts, read 5,125,713 times
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Never posted here but I want to hear people's opinions, not an endless stream of Bible verses.

The Christian version of heaven doesn't sound all that appealing and sometimes I think I'd rather not "go", lol. Saying this as a struggling believer.

A new, perfect Earth does sound appealing but the golden streets, being rulers and all that---- And more judgement! Who wants that?

IF your spiritual beliefs include a "heaven" what do you envision it to be? Is it just what you hope, or do you have some kind of confidence based on something "reliable"?

For me, having zero to base this on---my concept would be the ability to traverse the entire Universe and see it all, which would be a good reason to live "forever", lol.
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Old 04-27-2022, 05:17 PM
Location: Northeastern US
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I am to a point where no afterlife concept I've ever heard of is appealing.

While "everlasting life" seems superficially a "what's not to like" sort of thing, I suspect that humans, as currently constituted, would before long find the Christian heaven to be its own hell, due largely to hedonic tone. Hedonic tone is the phenomenon where one quickly returns to one's emotional baseline, and cannot long maintain a state of emotional arousal. Novelty is assessed, and provided it's not an existential threat, is incorporated into a "new normal". Eventually, all experiences are not novel, and also similar to earlier experiences and one stops wanting new ones.

Don't get me wrong, maybe 250 years with good quality of life would be nice (it's always nice to have options) but at some point no matter how good the movie is, you don't want it to last forever. You just want to pee and go to bed!

We are story-telling creatures and stories have beginnings middles, and, yes, ends.

Hedonic tone is not the only thing a deity would have to alter for purposes of eternal life. Humans would have to be modified in terms of much of our basic motivations and thinking processes, as evidenced by the fact that earthly life is not an inexorably improving thing tending toward paradise. At certain times in history it seems like it might be, but at the moment it's pretty hard to see it that way.

The whole Christian afterlife concept assumes (1) you will be recognizably yourself only (2) without any imperfections or ignorance or self-dealing. Would we then even be human? Or even "ourselves"? That gets into the whole notion of what it is to be human, and what an idealized human would be.

I just don't think people looking forward to heaven have thought this thing through. Adding golden street paving and removing dirty old sex from the picture (remember Jesus said that in heaven "they are neither married, nor given in marriage" -- which might be a great thing for those of us who have been married more than once, lol) just doesn't sound like it's going to cut it.

People in my experience tend to think of heaven as earth without any frustrations or speed bumps. Is that really what you want to do for an infinitude of years? It would be nice at first but ... IDK, seems like kind of a nothing-burger when you actually think about it.

Put another way: life is precious precisely because it is singular and limited. Make it infinite and the equation changes.
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Old 04-27-2022, 05:43 PM
Location: Eastern N.C.
1,357 posts, read 562,216 times
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Eternity is a really looooooong time.

Makes me think of Lazarus Long. After a while it is time to check out.
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Old 04-27-2022, 06:00 PM
Location: West Virginia
15,765 posts, read 14,210,885 times
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Originally Posted by mgdriver74 View Post
Eternity is a really looooooong time.

Makes me think of Lazarus Long. After a while it is time to check out.
I loved all the books about the Howard families.
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Old 04-27-2022, 06:18 PM
Location: Mars City, TX / France
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If I can die and just merge with the cosmos (or eternal force / Tao, if you wish), that will be enough of a heaven for me. I'd be joined with the spiritual realm and force, and don't need to be sitting around chatting with people on fluffy clouds, and all that stuff. Life on earth has it's ways that don't need to continue on in the afterlife. That'd be a dumbing down, not advancement.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 04-27-2022 at 06:31 PM..
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Old 04-27-2022, 07:38 PM
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It would be what I hope it to be - a place where others who care about me would want me to be.
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Old 04-27-2022, 08:22 PM
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I suspect our ability to conceive of the next life is as limited as our ability to envision this life would have been if we were sentient in our mother's womb. In short, as Vizzini would say, "Inconceivable!" I actually look forward to seeing the Awesome Panorama of Infinity as God slaps my spiritual behind after my physical death and rebirth as Spirit!
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Old 04-27-2022, 09:12 PM
Location: Booth Texas
21,058 posts, read 8,673,406 times
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In my good opinion there are 3 heavens and the 3 sections of the temple was built to mirror the 3 kingdoms.

Jesus talked about the differences between the 3 as 3 outcomes, a least in the kingdom, a greatest in the kingdom and an in between.

The least in the.kingdom appear to be reincarnated, the greatest in the kingdom become brethren of Christ as high priests.

I can only speculate about the in between, but they are Israel, and not in danger of falling to outer darkness with the.least.
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Old 04-27-2022, 09:16 PM
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It's a place of perfect happiness, to rest before another existence.

otherwise, here's pretty good synopses:

Much of the story's description is given by the character Sandy McWilliams, a cranberry farmer who is very experienced in the ways of Heaven. Sandy gives Stormfield, a newcomer, the description in the form of a conversational question-and-answer session. The Heaven described by him is similar to the conventional Christian Heaven, but includes a larger version of all the locations on Earth, as well as of everywhere in the universe (which mention of, albeit as a backdrop, is the last science fiction element). All sentient life-forms travel to Heaven, often through interplanetary or interstellar space, and land at a particular gate (which are without number), which is reserved for people from that originating planet. Each newcomer must then give his name and planet of origin to a gatekeeper, who sends him in to Heaven. Once inside, the being spends eternity living as they think fit, usually according to its true (sometimes undiscovered) talent. According to one of the characters, a cobbler who "has the soul of a poet in him won't have to make shoes here," implying that he would instead turn to poetry and achieve perfection in it. On special occasions a procession of the greatest people in history is formed; on this particular occasion this includes Buddha, William Shakespeare, Homer, Muhammed, Daniel, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah plus several otherwise unknown people whose talents far exceeded those of the world's pivotal figures, but who were never famous on Earth.
As Stormfield proceeds through Heaven he learns that the conventional image of angels as winged, white-robed figures bearing haloes, harps, and palm leaves is a mere illusion generated for the benefit of humans, who mistake "figurative language" for accurate description (the wings are part of their uniforms, and not functionally wings); that all of Heaven's denizens choose their ages, thus aligning themselves with the time of life at which they were most content; that anything desired is awarded to its seeker, if it does not violate any prohibition; that the prohibitions themselves are different from those envisioned on Earth; that each of the Earth-like regions of Heaven includes every human being who has ever lived on it; that families are not always together forever, because of decisions made by those who have died first; that white-skinned people are a minority in Heaven; that kings are not kings in Heaven (Charles II is a comedian while Henry VI has a religious book-stand), etc.

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Old 04-28-2022, 02:16 AM
Location: PRC
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I tend to think those who can go Out-of-Body have the answer and our Earth reality is just another School for the spirit. If that is the case, then it is the spirit which is on a never-ending (that assumes time is a real concept, which it may not be) journey towards a higher "vibration" , a brighter light,, closer to God, or a more and more refined state. If Earth School is just another university for the spirit and this lifetime is just another course in our learning journey, then some of us are being too literal in our interpretation of Heaven, or even human-ness.

Of course, one persons account of "heaven" is not the definitive answer, but I like to think that Robert Monroe in his 3 books has something of the essence because it is somewhat similar to what the old occultists reported in their tomes. If we can shift our consciousness to other realities through various occult and religious practices, then we can experience other realities as well as our Earth School/human existence.

Perhaps we can because we are doing just that when we go to sleep and dream each night. Then all of our dreams are "real" while we are dreaming, right? So, why not we are able to shift our consciousness to another reality with occult/religious practices? We would have another "body" or container according to the refinement of the reality we were in so that we could move around in that reality as a physical(to that reality) being - just like we do in this reality. Our consciousness is where our spirits focus of attention is at that moment - in our Earth body or in another dream body and that is how we experience the universe.
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