Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-29-2022, 09:43 AM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,290,617 times
Reputation: 3022

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
People whose culture is being appropriated for fun and profit have no doubt about what is and is not, it is quite clear cut.
It is the mindless majority culture that is ignorant and dismissal of stealing other people's culture that think it is appreciating it.
Well so am I ignorant and dismissive of it or just not part of a minority? You had the opportunity to explain what cultural appropriation is to the poster who asked and instead put him down with little explanation. You seem more interested in making proclamation and judgements that share knowledge in many cases.

For example you gave no information in your response to my saying it was not clear cut. When the Edmonton Eskimos football team asked the Inuit in northern Canada if their use of the word Eskimos was an insult the Inuit population deemed split with yes and no and many were proud that the no longer term was used. Anyway the team is now the Edmonton Elks which is gramatically incorrect.

And I have listened to young Native Americans disagreeing in some aspects of what is appropriation of their own culture so that is one of the way I have come to my provisional conclusion that it is not clear cut.

So is Jbgusa listening to Canadian music cultural appropriation or not? That was his question you could have answered rather than putting down his intelligence or understanding.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-29-2022, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,283 posts, read 23,893,601 times
Reputation: 32621
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Those whom you stole from think of it as stealing. Black Fats Domino did not make the money that the white Ricky Nelson did, and he wasn't half as good. Does that occur to you?
Of course, that doesn't quite explain why Fats' net worth when he died was approximately $8 million, while Rick Nelson's net worth at death was approximately $500,000.

But money isn't everything. Whites have long tended to appropriate 'Black music"...cause they like it. Rock and roll, hip hop, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2022, 09:54 AM
 
15,830 posts, read 6,896,142 times
Reputation: 8487
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Of course, that doesn't quite explain why Fats' net worth when he died was approximately $8 million, while Rick Nelson's net worth at death was approximately $500,000.

But money isn't everything. Whites have long tended to appropriate 'Black music"...cause they like it. Rock and roll, hip hop, etc.
Ricky Neslon just was not that good, he was like ketchup on white bread. That the audience they like it does not excuse what they are knowingly doing.

This kind of appropriation is not necessarily out and out bad thing as it provides for a richer cultural landscape . It is the non-awareness of it and dismissal of the stealing that is harmful. We have patents and copyrights to protect work. But culture has no such protection. So the responsible thing to do is to acknowledge it, respect the source, and work with the system to provide recognition for artists of the culture that is being ignored because they are not white and dont have the cache or the capital. It is now happening only because of educating the public and artists themselves working together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2022, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,283 posts, read 23,893,601 times
Reputation: 32621
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Ricky Neslon just was not that good, he was like ketchup on white bread. That the audience they like it does not excuse what they are knowingly doing.

This kind of appropriation is not necessarily out and out bad thing as it provides for a richer cultural landscape . It is the non-awareness of it and dismissal of the stealing that is harmful. We have patents and copyrights to protect work. But culture has no such protection. So the responsible thing to do is to acknowledge it, respect the source, and work with the system to provide recognition for artists of the culture that is being ignored because they are not white and dont have the cache or the capital. It is now happening only because of educating the public and artists themselves working together.
Actually, their record sales were somewhat equal (65 million for Fats, 60 million for Nelson).

But it seems to me this discussion has strayed an awfully long ways away from karma.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2022, 10:11 AM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,290,617 times
Reputation: 3022
So if a white artist does a cover of a black artist it is stealing but if they do a cover of a white artist it is not? And a black artist doing a cover of a white artist is that also stealing? What is a Native American does a cover of a black artist? Or an East Coast doing a cover of a West Coast artist?

The Music industry has so much covers . And visual artists get inspiration from other artists so if some of the artists are of minorities is the inspired art cultural appropriation? And what about the Cape Dorset printmakers, a group of Inuit artists using a European art form? Or then a European artist ge tying inspiration for their work from a Cape Dorset printmakers?

Yes very clear cut and only misunderstood by ignorant members of the majority.
N
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2022, 10:58 AM
 
63,470 posts, read 39,739,901 times
Reputation: 7794
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is the negative interpretation of cultural appreciation. When someone sees value and benefit in something in another culture and appreciates its value that can be (and usually is) considered cultural appropriation by those with a negative mindset about the motives of others, IMO. It is not necessary to adopt the entire zeitgeist of the culture to benefit from it. The latter presupposes ownership and separateness that I no longer believe exists among us. We are ALL part of the ONENESS, so I tend to see it positively as recognizing the value in things developed in other cultures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
except you do NOT put that into practice in your posts. you do NOT positively recognize other cultures, you do just the opposite. your posts are rife with denigration, belittling, insult, and lack of regard for cultures and people. your posts and views do NOT show value and positive recognition of the cultures and peoples you constantly and consistently denigrate. they reek with negativity. as described in bold below.

you're doing it right now, in this thread, by ridiculing the very act of calling out and recognizing cultural appropriation. And instead trying to call it "appreciation." Taking something harmful and trying to paint it as a positive, which shows an utter lack of understanding of what the problem is, and not only denying that it is a problem which exists. But taking it a step further in an obscenely negative direction by denigrating and seeking to discredit those who do recognize and seek to address the problem.

"Cultural appropriation arises when people, anyone, takes aspects of another culture specifically to mock or disrespect them," he said. "What seems to draw the ire of cultural appropriation activists are the less respectful instances where someone will use an item from another culture to ridicule or patronize the other group." ---Saurav Dutt, British Bengali author whose work explores racism and interracial relationships within Indian society
ANY mocking, ridicule, or negative use of a culture is just that - negative mocking, ridicule, and denigration - NOT cultural appropriation!!! You have issues with the TRUTH which is why you THINK my views are denigration, but our ancestors WERE ignorant, savage, primitive, and brutal, period. That is not contestable. That says NOTHING about anyone TODAY!!! You can be a very negative and irritating "nattering nabob of negativism," Tzaph!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2022, 03:42 PM
 
15,830 posts, read 6,896,142 times
Reputation: 8487
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
So if a white artist does a cover of a black artist it is stealing but if they do a cover of a white artist it is not? And a black artist doing a cover of a white artist is that also stealing? What is a Native American does a cover of a black artist? Or an East Coast doing a cover of a West Coast artist?

The Music industry has so much covers . And visual artists get inspiration from other artists so if some of the artists are of minorities is the inspired art cultural appropriation? And what about the Cape Dorset printmakers, a group of Inuit artists using a European art form? Or then a European artist ge tying inspiration for their work from a Cape Dorset printmakers?

Yes very clear cut and only misunderstood by ignorant members of the majority.
N
Using, adapting and making a cover of song WITH PERMISSION or buying it, is not the same as cultural appropriation without permission. That is why it is called stealing. Do you know if they make a cover of songs with legal permission? I dont, but they are copyrighted so i would assume yes.
Anybody who buys copyrighted material can use it for stated purpose so your question makes bo sense.
Original art is not appropriation. Artists and writers inspires each others work all the time. That is not copying.
Yes, it is indeed clear cut. Maybe you learnt something new today.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2022, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,283 posts, read 23,893,601 times
Reputation: 32621
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Using, adapting and making a cover of song WITH PERMISSION or buying it, is not the same as cultural appropriation without permission. That is why it is called stealing. Do you know if they make a cover of songs with legal permission? I dont, but they are copyrighted so i would assume yes.
Anybody who buys copyrighted material can use it for stated purpose so your question makes bo sense.
Original art is not appropriation. Artists and writers inspires each others work all the time. That is not copying.
Yes, it is indeed clear cut. Maybe you learnt something new today.
Letting relatives not in your house use your premium cable channels is also immoral based on the prohibition against stealing in most religions. And yet I remember...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2022, 05:21 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,290,617 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Using, adapting and making a cover of song WITH PERMISSION or buying it, is not the same as cultural appropriation without permission. That is why it is called stealing. Do you know if they make a cover of songs with legal permission? I dont, but they are copyrighted so i would assume yes.
Anybody who buys copyrighted material can use it for stated purpose so your question makes bo sense.
Original art is not appropriation. Artists and writers inspires each others work all the time. That is not copying.
Yes, it is indeed clear cut. Maybe you learnt something new today.
And yet there are several well known artists that I am aware of whose work is native inspired and First Nations people have accused them of cultural appropriation. And yet you said that minorities know what cultural appropriation is but you just posted that it wasn't. So I guess I did not learn anything from you on this matter.

By the way my wife is a visual artists and my granddaughter is a recording artist hence I am not as clueless in these fields as you assume. What is cultural appropriation is a serious conversation among artists so maybe they are not as knowledgeable in the field as yourself athough you have not been crystal clear on exactly what it is. If it is so clear cut why do people still discuss what it is?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2022, 05:42 PM
 
15,830 posts, read 6,896,142 times
Reputation: 8487
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Letting relatives not in your house use your premium cable channels is also immoral based on the prohibition against stealing in most religions. And yet I remember...
Possibly. My cable company has not in any place or form said anything about using a relatives id and password with (or even without, they dont care) their permission. They have no sense of morality, only good business. So does Netlflix which apparently knows multiple households share a password. They know everything.

Looks like atheists are obsessed with morality today, who is a sex worker, who has how many abortions, who uses whose password ... pitiful.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top