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Old 05-10-2022, 02:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Just a cliché.
if the wisdom found in paths of religion and spirituality is a cliche to someone,
then so be it. they are unable to grasp that wisdom.
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
if the wisdom found in paths of religion and spirituality is a cliche to someone,
then so be it. they are unable to grasp that wisdom.
not everything about religion and spirituality is wisdom. some of it is just woo
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
in many paths of religion and spirituality,
a distinction is made between pain and suffering.
that is, pain and suffering are not the same.
there is a differentiation made between pain and suffering.

understanding and identifying the difference between pain and suffering, helps a person reduce and eliminate suffering.
pain is part of life. suffering is not.
hence the saying, 'pain is inevitable, suffering is a choice.'
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Just a cliché.
Then that is dismissing Buddhism as a cliche,
because Buddhism is predicated entirely upon how to end suffering.

It is strange to read the post above, as it raises the question, how can a self-identified Buddhist dismiss the core of Buddhism as "just a cliche" ?

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-10-2022 at 02:30 PM..
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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I don't have a problem with making a distinction between pain and suffering or of the notion that suffering can be chosen. Is it always chosen? Depends on your definition of suffering I suppose.

I've had some very painful experiences but do not suffer concerning them. That is to say thoughts about those experiences don't arise unbidden or keep me awake nights or close me off to choices or possibilities in my life going forward. I am not aware of any significant regrets in life; I am more aware of disappointments. But even those are just because things violate my hopeful expectations, not because I feel my life is ruined as a result. I can still point to experiences and people that haven't disappointed, and I am not blinded to the benefits I enjoy on a daily basis in spite of those things that aren't available to me.

If this is what is meant by not suffering around pain, then I suppose I have managed to pull that off. I don't have a process though really, apart from having spent my life ridding myself of unrealistic expectations or sense of entitlement. In my case at least it was my particular religious or theistic thinking that gave me those sky-high expectations and sense of entitlement. YMMV.
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luciano700 View Post
Are the ass-whoopings of life all trying to convey a more important message from the powers that be or is suffering just a random part of life?
The existence of human suffering and the fact that we perceive it as undesirable are tangible evidence that things are not as they should be in the cosmos.

Through the example of Christ, we see that our path to redemption necessarily entails suffering. Suffering is not random, but is rather an opportunity for us to join our sufferings with those of Christ.

Everything we suffer can be offered up to God as an act of penance for our individual sins and the sins of humanity.
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike View Post
Everything we suffer can be offered up to God as an act of penance for our individual sins and the sins of humanity.
Why would one do that if one's sins are already atoned for through faith in Christ? Why would one do that for others when only they can repent for themselves?

It seems that you feel that something other than the atonement is needed.
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
Then that is dismissing Buddhism as a cliche,
because Buddhism is predicated entirely upon how to end suffering.

It is strange to read the post above, as it raises the question, how can a self-identified Buddhist dismiss the core of Buddhism as "just a cliche" ?
Buddhism doesn't say that there is no suffering. It also doesn't say that the typical person can eliminate all suffering. It gives one a path to help resolve suffering.
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Why would one do that if one's sins are already atoned for through faith in Christ?
Our sins can be forgiven, but they still cause real and oftentimes lasting pain. A couple of examples:

1) My child is playing outside and throws a ball through the window. He comes inside and apologizes for breaking the window. I forgive him completely. However, there is still a mess of broken glass on the floor that needs to be swept up.

2) I shoot a man and steal his wallet. The gunshot wound causes permanent chronic pain in the victim. I have genuine remorse for my crime, I apologize to the victim, and he amazingly forgives me. However, he still has to live with that chronic pain for the rest of his life and I'll most likely spend a long time in prison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Why would one do that for others when only they can repent for themselves?
Why not? Jesus asked God to forgive those who crucified Him, so we can ask God to forgive others.

We also believe that Christ suffered and died for everyone, even for those who hate and reject Him. So, we too can suffer for those who hate us even if they ultimately reject Christ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
It seems that you feel that something other than the atonement is needed.
Needed for what? Our ultimate goal is not heaven. Our ultimate goal is the New Heavens and the New Earth. We want to participate in the redemption of every last molecule of creation.
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike View Post
Needed for what? Our ultimate goal is not heaven. Our ultimate goal is the New Heavens and the New Earth. We want to participate in the redemption of every last molecule of creation.
Ah so you do not see penance as a mechanism of personal redemption but more of practical restitution and perhaps societal redemption.
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:52 PM
 
21,893 posts, read 19,040,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Buddhism doesn't say that there is no suffering. It also doesn't say that the typical person can eliminate all suffering. It gives one a path to help resolve suffering.

Here is example of person with chronic pain applying the teachings of Buddhism,
"A Buddhist Approach to Working with Pain, from Suffering to Liberation"

"I have been pondering how to use my Buddhist practice to work with suffering when my chronic pain flares up. The Buddha’s teachings on The Four Noble Truths came immediately to mind. These teachings provide a roadmap for living a life free from suffering. Experiencing my pain directly, without judgments or resistance, has allowed me to use the Buddha’s roadmap on my journey from suffering to liberation. In his first teaching after attaining liberation, the Buddha taught The Four Noble Truths: the truth of suffering, the truth of the origin of suffering, the truth of the cessation of suffering, and the truth of the path to liberation from suffering."

"When I work with my pain directly in this way, I am fully in the present moment. My thoughts, judgments and resistance are gone, and so is the suffering that I’ve added to the pain with those thoughts, judgments and resistance. In that present moment, I am liberated from my suffering. As the old adage goes, “Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.” "

https://bethspatterson.com/buddhist-...20and%20others.


I find it strange that those who identify as Buddhist would dismiss that as "just a cliche"

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-10-2022 at 03:02 PM..
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