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So May I ask why? I mean why yo adopt myself to a certain path over another if it's not powerful enough of attraction or changing myself at first
If there were to be a single thing that attracts me to Buddhism perhaps it would be Buddha's teaching that we should not accept something just because he said it. We should test the teaching for ourselves and see if it works; if it does incorporate it into what we do; if not, set it aside, we may come back to it later.
But keep in mind that wisdom is where you find it. There is much wisdom in other religions and from a variety of sources that are not religious.
I'm new here, this is my first thread, and I'm asking a question that always comes throw my mind, do you try to explore other religions? maybe you find a truth in a path that not yours, or you just decide to follow your parents and community's religion or you took the easier way to reject them all ?
I have looked at other religions after I realized I was an atheist, but the only one that I could relate to was early Daoism.
I do believe in Islam, I'm a Muslim since 13 years
I was born as a Muslim in a country with a major Muslim population, but most of my friends were christians in my childhood, and that's always triggers the question when I was teen , why I should go to the mosque while my friends go to the church , Jesus is either a son of god or not a son of god, either a god or not a god he can't be both on the same time , both Islam an d Christianity can't be both right while telling opposite stories about the same person, I explores Quran and bible a lot but I never explored Hinduism or Buddhism , I turned to atheirsm in some years of my teenage , and stayed religion less maybe untill 20 , now I'm 37
I tried to read about Hinduism and Buddhism but I failed a big failure , little Arabic resources and it needs so much efforts with my poor English specially in the philosophical/ religious terms
Although of long time staying on Islam, I always like to share thoughts and discussions with others specially when you got older and older ,you find lots of people around you begone to pass away, parent, uncle's , in laws,....so one has to think more about his eternal fate..
It is a pity that language is a huge bar to knowledge, which is so precious. I began to teach myself Sanskrit In order to access the original vedic texts directly. It was hard at first because i had no tutor. The language has a very precise but extensive structure, a vocabulary that is built from a root word, and a script that is a bit quirky. Once you get the hang of it, you learn to appreciate how systematic it is. But i made progress and feel comfortable with my studies where i can translate. It helps that there is a great interest in the study of Sanskrit world wide and all kinds of tools and web sites available for help, and people more than happy to offer help. It has been a joyful experience for me.
I hope you could do the same with Arabic. In early centuries Arabic and Chinese scholars travelled to India, learnt sanskrit and translated the texts to Arabic and Chinese.
Originally Posted by islam yehia I do believe in Islam, I'm a Muslim since 13 years
I was born as a Muslim in a country with a major Muslim population, but most of my friends were christians in my childhood, and that's always triggers the question when I was teen , why I should go to the mosque while my friends go to the church , Jesus is either a son of god or not a son of god, either a god or not a god he can't be both on the same time , both Islam an d Christianity can't be both right while telling opposite stories about the same person, I explores Quran and bible a lot but I never explored Hinduism or Buddhism , I turned to atheirsm in some years of my teenage , and stayed religion less maybe untill 20 , now I'm 37
I tried to read about Hinduism and Buddhism but I failed a big failure , little Arabic resources and it needs so much efforts with my poor English specially in the philosophical/ religious terms
Although of long time staying on Islam, I always like to share thoughts and discussions with others specially when you got older and older ,you find lots of people around you begone to pass away, parent, uncle's , in laws,....so one has to think more about his eternal fate..
And it was said in the bible:
Much knowledge Comes with much sorrows.
Empty your cup.
Once, a long time ago, there was a wise Zen master. People from far and near would seek his counsel and ask for his wisdom. Many would come and ask him to teach them, enlighten them in the way of Zen. He seldom turned any away.
One day an important man, a man used to command and obedience came to visit the master. “I have come today to ask you to teach me about Zen. Open my mind to enlightenment.†The tone of the important man’s voice was one used to getting his own way.
The Zen master smiled and said that they should discuss the matter over a cup of tea. When the tea was served the master poured his visitor a cup. He poured and he poured and the tea rose to the rim and began to spill over the table and finally onto the robes of the wealthy man. Finally the visitor shouted, “Enough. You are spilling the tea all over. Can’t you see the cup is full?â€
The master stopped pouring and smiled at his guest. “You are like this tea cup, so full that nothing more can be added. Come back to me when the cup is empty. Come back to me with an empty mind.â€
It is a pity that language is a huge bar to knowledge, which is so precious. I began to teach myself Sanskrit In order to access the original vedic texts directly. It was hard at first because i had no tutor. The language has a very precise but extensive structure, a vocabulary that is built from a root word, and a script that is a bit quirky. Once you get the hang of it, you learn to appreciate how systematic it is. But i made progress and feel comfortable with my studies where i can translate. It helps that there is a great interest in the study of Sanskrit world wide and all kinds of tools and web sites available for help, and people more than happy to offer help. It has been a joyful experience for me.
I hope you could do the same with Arabic. In early centuries Arabic and Chinese scholars travelled to India, learnt sanskrit and translated the texts to Arabic and Chinese.
I envy.you for the patience to learn, how old were you at the beginning of all of that ? I'll try to have a look at Sanskrit, I wish it will be fruitful, one of the things I liked about Islam that it's original language still alive and spoken by more than 300 millions natively including myself, which ease my journey as there's no language barrier
I envy.you for the patience to learn, how old were you at the beginning of all of that ? I'll try to have a look at Sanskrit, I wish it will be fruitful, one of the things I liked about Islam that it's original language still alive and spoken by more than 300 millions natively including myself, which ease my journey as there's no language barrier
A Fox one day spied a beautiful bunch of ripe grapes hanging from a vine trained along the branches of a tree. The grapes seemed ready to burst with juice, and the Fox’s mouth watered as he gazed longingly at them. The bunch hung from a high branch, and the Fox had to jump for it. The first time he jumped he missed it by a long way. So he walked off a short distance and took a running leap at it, only to fall short once more. Again and again he tried, but in vain. Now he sat down and looked at the grapes in disgust. “What a fool I am,†he said. “Here I am wearing myself out to get a bunch of sour grapes that are not worth gaping for.†And off he walked very, very scornfully.
If we do not put enough effort into our goal accomplishment we, then, come up with an excuse, why it was the right thing, that we failed.
The bolded is hilarious and has some actual minor truth to it, since at one time the Episcopal Church tended to be made up of the wealthy. Not so anymore, of course. My parish barely keeps its head above water, but the one up the road in the snootier old-money town is doing fine.
There are a lot of Episcopal parishes that were once in wealthy urban neighborhoods that now have Spanish-speaking immigrant congregations, or as in the case of one in our NJ Diocese, Igbo-speaking.
The problem with the wealthy mindset remains in the greater corporate Episcopal church, however, and it is that which I dislike. Greatly dislike, the more I've learned.
The thing is, the Episcopal High Mass as we call it, is something we still to this day go way out of our way for at Christmas Eve. And in fact, Thanksgiving to New Years as well. There is something very aesthetically pleasing and inspiring in a well done Episcopal Mass. It does not exist in any other service that I have personally found.
One Episcopal church used the tag "The Thinking person's church"
Perhaps what should be mentioned in "The Introvert's Church" It is not a place where I have encountered people going to socialize. Unless, it is part of the "low church " tradition.....which offers the same service that could be found at a presby or UMC church. Which many people like, but hey, it was never my thing.
As a result though of perhaps, maybe, more introverted types attending the Episcopal high churches, there is a lot less emphasis placed on the social aspect. Hence, people will more likely keep to themselves. Which is fine. I would rather that than have people follow me out after service to grill me in my beliefs and faith which I have encountered numerous times at Bible, Independent and fundy churches.
That is not either to suggest that there are not Jerkos to be met at the Episcopal church, There certainly are. I can name places and dates. But instead, I would just choose to cross those places off the list, which was, BTW , a huge list when I stopped attending churches.
The question then became, well, here is a poor young post college student interested in intellectualism over faith, reason over blind acceptance and aestheticism above all else. So the Episcopal church Should, theoretically, meet that interest, but in many cases it did not. And I have to think that it had something to do with the fact that I was NOT raised in the Episcopal church, so people did not know me, and second, I had NO MONEY and those around me did. Now I do know that people at my parents Baptist church would not give the time of day to anyone who they saw to be in any way beneath them, the pastor especially, who did not even want to acknowledge you unless you had million$ and that 15% tithe to give him...... So here is a church of people who wore Gucci and Armani and drove BMWs and Bentleys and did not seem to want to talk to anyone beneath them.
SO from the beginning, I have never found acceptance in that group. and hey, just FYI we made almost a half million last year now. And I still feel like an outcast when I go. I show up in a JC Penney suit and driving a Toyota, Someone who drove in a Lexus wearing a Rolex does not want to come out of his way to talk to me. That sadly, is still the aura I encounter at the Episcopal church. Belief aside, no one there has any idea what I believe. It is all based on appearances. At least there.
I recently gave some $ to a friend who runs a church in town here, I like his charitable (not theological) activities. He honored my request to never let the right hand know what the left hand is doing in regards to giving. He did say that my contributions helped some people who needed the help desperately. I believe he is honest.
I would care more about an organization that puts people first, and focuses on helping people meet the basic needs, rather than being given a "Suffering in this world/ living in the next" attitude. Since I do not believe that an afterlife is likely, and if so, the details of it cannot be known or measured, I want to leave this world better than it was when I arrived. If a church, or Mosque, or Synagogue or whatever is doing something to help people better themselves and by that I mean contribute to a positive self image which means bettering themselves and being able to put food on the table and meet the needs of their family ...then yes, I have no problem being there to hand out food or deliver care packages or volunteer to help with covid vaccines. But if the money I donate is going to the pastor's vacation home and the Cadillac he drives, then forget it...I am out.
I mean the POPE himself Drives an older simple car to work every day. Nothing fancy. That is a good example. I do too. I buy a car and drive it until the wheels fall off and when it cannot be repaired anymore, Then I get a new one. And showing up in a Toyota that is 7 years old and parking next to the Mercedes that people drive to the Episcopal church does not really make it seem like I have the money that they do, but hey, I am not there to impress anyone.
But that is, still today, the aura around the Episcopal church. One one hand, it is the most beautiful and aesthetically inspiring service, and to me, that is ALL that matters, but on the other hand, the myth of having a "church family" will for me, remain forever a myth. I feel like I am more welcome and accepted by the rational and intellectual atheist's who coordinate charity programs in town than the religious people.
I do not take communion, I do not discuss belief with any there, obviously., I do offer money. They have some expense putting on a show like they do.
I have noticed this too, over the past 30 years, the Christmas Eve services have gone from packed to the gills to about 25 percent full.
Not sure what to make of that. Lack of belief, lack of a new generation wanting to be part of it, poor marketing, old members dying off, or is it the trend towards non-belief which many of us have found makes our lives more fulfilling.....I just do not know. That remains a mystery to me.
^Don't need to quote your whole post, LKG, but it was interesting. The church I attended was a "low church", and social interaction was one of the main reasons I went there. For a time I did have a church family when I didn't have much else living as a single, divorced woman in my 50s in an area where I'd moved to but still commuted to NYC 40 miles away and didn't have many chances to meet people.
I am curious that you say the Eucharist was the same as a Presbyterian or UMC church. I didn't know that. One of the reasons I liked the Episcopal Church was the formality of the weekly ritual along with the laid-back acceptance of others and the social aspect. I'd grown up in the Reformed Church, and Presbyterian was always said to be similar to that, and yet we did not have weekly communion in the Reformed Church or the Eucharist as the center of the service the way it is in an Episcopal church, even a low one.
But just as you loved Christmas Eve in a high church, I loved Ash Wednesday at Trinity Wall Street, with Misere Mei, Deus, sung in Latin during the Imposition of Ashes. It was like taking a step back in time. I would leave work to go there for the service and sometimes just step inside and light a candle in the chapel when I was out walking at lunch time. I have a picture of the church I took standing in the middle of Wall at another time. Note the statue of George Washington in the place (original Federal Hall now gone) where he gave his inaugural address, a reminder that NYC was the nation's first Capital.
I was nominally raised as vaguely Christian, as my dad is vaguely Protestant and my mom is vaguely Catholic. By vaguely I mean that neither attend church/mass regularly, nor pray regularly, nor really did anything to impart religion on my sister and me than some curt answers about the universe when we would ask about where things come from. "Oh, God did it. And he has a son Jesus. Etc."
By the time I was 13, I had basically reasoned my way out of any belief. For me it was like accepting Santa was not real, only a few years later. There wasn't a big revelation or anything. I just one day heard about a friend going to church, possibly, and said to myself "you know, I don't really think this is true."
As I hit high school, a good portion of my friend group was in the same position I was. Or, if not outright atheist, only nominally their religion. Cultural Christians and Cultural Jews, pretty much. But a few were more devout, so it was interesting having debates and discussions with them. All civil and cordial, of course. I even wound up going to a weekly "Teen Talk" held at a local Methodist church. A friend had invited me, as he enjoyed our civil debates. I rather enjoyed those talks, as I got to see more about the Christian perspective on things, albeit a very progressive-leaning version of Christianity.
Despite those meetings, I never seriously considered Christianity as anything other than mythology - the same way I view all religion, to this day. There are two religions, however, that do speak to me. Admiration for both came after reading specific books about them: VALIS and Cat's Cradle.
VALIS is a trippy sci-fi book by Philip K. Dick, which he wrote to try to understand certain peculiar occurrences in his life. He might even have called them miracles. He orients these miracles in the framework of Gnostic Christianity, which is a radically different interpretation of Biblical events than mainstream Christian thought.
Upon further research after finishing the novel, I did learn that there wasn't one Gnostic Branch per se, but rather a loose movement in early Christendom with several overlapping ideas. Some of these groups were more closely aligned in theology than others. But the theology presented by these groups hew more closely to what I would consider a just and moral universe, in that the universe is inherently made unjust, and that through certain teachings from Jesus, one can escape the prison that is this broken world. I like that idea. It doesn't lay blame of sin on mankind, and it actually addresses the problem of evil. It's a nifty little worldview. The only problem with me believing it is that it isn't true; or rather, the same lack of evidence and factual issues that won't permit me from taking any other religion as fact also apply to the Gnostics.
This brings me to my other favorite religion: Bokononism. This is a wholly invented religion by Kurt Vonnegut in his book Cat's Cradle. The beauty of this religion is that it is very upfront about its authenticity from the start. The first lines of the Book of Bokonon (the holy book described within Cat's Cradle) tell the reader that the religion is full of lies. It isn't true. Emphatically. And yet, the small island nation where the novel mostly takes place is full of devout Bokononists. Why? Because even though the tenets and principles are lies, the outcomes are good. The religion teaches you to be kind, to be curious, and to cherish what you can now. That, to me, is the purest distillation of when religions can be useful. When the outcomes are good, as well.
So there we go. While I remain atheist, I have an affinity for Gnostic Christianity and Bokononism.
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