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Old 08-12-2022, 04:42 PM
 
9,266 posts, read 3,703,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
It is a counter balance. Not counter. Very different meaning. Majoritarianism can become oppressive if there is no other voice for balance. We, as citizens of US, want all religions and beliefs the freedom of expression and conscience. Abortion is viewed differently in different religions. So is marriage and divorce, and many other issues that humans deal with. They all have a right to voice their concern over secular laws that are made that affect their lives. This diversity of views is strength. We may agree or disagree but we can still have a dialogue and protest. Democracy is messy, just as religion is.
Might come a complete surprise to you but I as a Canadian fully understand how democracy works.

But you do not need to counterbalance one religion if religions do not impose their concepts or morals into society. Religion has a smaller impact upon Canadian politics and laws hence less needs to counterbalance any religious over reach.

For example in 2005 when the debate on SSM came up in Canada our then PM stated that as a devout Catholic he was against it however when he looked at it as a human rights issue he stated that how can anyone be against human rights. One should not base any laws or regulations based in any religion grounds. A country laws should be based upon what is in the best for all citizens not just for those of a certain religion therefore this should not be a need to counterbalance with what is best for those of other religions.

Abortion is a medical not political or religious issue. As are marriage, divorce or sex not religious issues. Same with taxes, garbage pickup or pollution reduction.

And democracy works best when followers of all religions support each of the five major parties rather than one group of religions support mostly one of two parties.
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Old 08-12-2022, 07:18 PM
 
12,522 posts, read 4,717,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
Might come a complete surprise to you but I as a Canadian fully understand how democracy works.

But you do not need to counterbalance one religion if religions do not impose their concepts or morals into society. Religion has a smaller impact upon Canadian politics and laws hence less needs to counterbalance any religious over reach.

For example in 2005 when the debate on SSM came up in Canada our then PM stated that as a devout Catholic he was against it however when he looked at it as a human rights issue he stated that how can anyone be against human rights. One should not base any laws or regulations based in any religion grounds. A country laws should be based upon what is in the best for all citizens not just for those of a certain religion therefore this should not be a need to counterbalance with what is best for those of other religions.

Abortion is a medical not political or religious issue. As are marriage, divorce or sex not religious issues. Same with taxes, garbage pickup or pollution reduction.

And democracy works best when followers of all religions support each of the five major parties rather than one group of religions support mostly one of two parties.
The topic really is about the good that religion does and how it does. In a free society where freedom of religion and conscience is valued, religion will always play a role. That being the case the larger the diversity of religious thoughts and spiritual practices, they would naturally counter balance one another. And that is a good thing. It is not something that is or can be enforced, it just happens naturally. That is one of the good things religion does.
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Old 08-12-2022, 07:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
The topic really is about the good that religion does and how it does. In a free society where freedom of religion and conscience is valued, religion will always play a role. That being the case the larger the diversity of religious thoughts and spiritual practices, they would naturally counter balance one another. And that is a good thing. It is not something that is or can be enforced, it just happens naturally. That is one of the good things religion does.
However the exact same thing would happen if there was no religuon as well. And if a country has low diversity of religions it would not happen.

It is actually diversity does good and more races, more political.parties and more of other things it us good. In your argument religion would only do good if there is a sufficient diversity of religions. Thar isa much weaker argument than the others yoy have put forward.

How well do countrys without much diversity of religions do in this matter? And how well does a diverse religion country where religion mostly stays out of politics cimpared ro a country with similiar duversity but religiin actively gets involved in politics.

These are questions which you assertion totallly needs to ignore makung it a weak claim for religion doing good.
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Old 08-12-2022, 08:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
However the exact same thing would happen if there was no religuon as well. And if a country has low diversity of religions it would not happen.

It is actually diversity does good and more races, more political.parties and more of other things it us good. In your argument religion would only do good if there is a sufficient diversity of religions. Thar isa much weaker argument than the others yoy have put forward.

How well do countrys without much diversity of religions do in this matter? And how well does a diverse religion country where religion mostly stays out of politics cimpared ro a country with similiar duversity but religiin actively gets involved in politics.

These are questions which you assertion totallly needs to ignore makung it a weak claim for religion doing good.
There is no evidence to prove your claim. Countries with no religion have proven to be tyrannical and dictatorial such China, Russia, Hungary.
I am glad you agree diversity is a good thing. I dont know why you disagree that diversity in religion is also a good thing. What is your evidence for that claim?
I did not say religion does good only if there is diversity. All religions have diversity of thought even within sects. That is its strength as well. There is no religion without people and people have thoughts and ideas. They shape the religion just as religion shapes them.
Religion is people. And people do good. Religion give them a structure to do good.
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Old 08-12-2022, 08:31 PM
 
9,266 posts, read 3,703,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
There is no evidence to prove your claim. Countries with no religion have proven to be tyrannical and dictatorial such China, Russia, Hungary.
I am glad you agree diversity is a good thing. I dont know why you disagree that diversity in religion is also a good thing. What is your evidence for that claim?
I did not say religion does good only if there is diversity. All religions have diversity of thought even within sects. That is its strength as well. There is no religion without people and people have thoughts and ideas. They shape the religion just as religion shapes them.
Religion is people. And people do good. Religion give them a structure to do good.
Countries with religion includes Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Mideval Europe. So countries with relugion have been oriven to be dictatirial and tyrannical. Two can play that game. I never said that diversity in religion is nir a good thing. I said diversity is a good thing. Yes people can do good things and religion does give sime people a structure to do good. However that is totally unrelated to your claim I addressed and I think your last paragraph does not support tour claim.

Sorry that I cannot support claims that I never made abd I do not think I am responsible for you misrepesenting me.
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Old 08-12-2022, 08:58 PM
 
12,522 posts, read 4,717,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
Countries with religion includes Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Mideval Europe. So countries with relugion have been oriven to be dictatirial and tyrannical. Two can play that game. I never said that diversity in religion is nir a good thing. I said diversity is a good thing. Yes people can do good things and religion does give sime people a structure to do good. However that is totally unrelated to your claim I addressed and I think your last paragraph does not support tour claim.

Sorry that I cannot support claims that I never made abd I do not think I am responsible for you misrepesenting me.
The bolded is the only point of this topic. Glad we agree.

Can people do good without religion? Of course because goodness comes out of people.
The countries you name are not secular democracies. They are theocratic monarchies and by its very nature they can be tyrannical, even if there is diversity of religions. However their religions do good. Islam teaches charity, forgiveness, and kindness, and Muslims practice all those virtues in their actions.
Medieval Europe. Does it exist other than in history and imagination? Not topic.
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Old 08-13-2022, 07:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
My sister's church hosts as a homeless shelter one weekend a month. It is 100% volunteer.
This. Thank you fir sharing that.
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Old 08-13-2022, 07:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post

Which raises the question, does religion do good because of religion, or because people who are religious do good. What is the cause of doing good?

I do good because it is the right thing to do, not because some religion says so.

Religion does provide hope, comfort, a focus for social coherence, it inspires art, literature, music and architecture, but religion is not alone here.

Enjoy the benefits of religion, enjoy religion itself, but do not let it blind you to the reality of life.
People do good. It is our nature to do good because divinity exists everywhere and in everything, which includes “us”.
Religion does not blind. If followed with the right disposition, it leads you to liberation. That is the good religion does. The rest is icing on the cake. Dont let the beauty blind you to the Truth.
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Old 08-13-2022, 03:27 PM
 
6,230 posts, read 2,427,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Prayers that Hindus offer for the welfare of all beings, for the earth and waters, air and sun, the sky and the stars and the planet. For prosperity for all, and feeding of everyone.
Muslim prayers for forgiveness and kindness, and feeding everyone.
Christian charity and work among the poor and the sick.
Please add your own.

One need ask--Why doesnt God answer their prayers? Not all is as appears in a satan ruled system.
Take the christian charities for example. These claim to be followers of Jesus and serve him. Yet Those charities of theirs actually fail both Jesus and those in need. You ask How? Jesus teaches--Matthew 6:33--Therefore, keep on seeking- FIRST- the kingdom and his( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)-- Matt 6= a promise from Jesus that his Father would provide all 3 things if needed if they applied that teaching in their lives) If they were really interested in serving Jesus and helping those in need, along with the temporary fix given they would make 100% sure that permanent fix is taught to each one in need along with the temp fix. So why is it not being taught? They live in darkness is why and do not know Jesus as they claim.
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Old 08-13-2022, 04:14 PM
 
12,522 posts, read 4,717,294 times
Reputation: 7079
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
One need ask--Why doesnt God answer their prayers? Not all is as appears in a satan ruled system.
Take the christian charities for example. These claim to be followers of Jesus and serve him. Yet Those charities of theirs actually fail both Jesus and those in need. You ask How? Jesus teaches--Matthew 6:33--Therefore, keep on seeking- FIRST- the kingdom and his( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)-- Matt 6= a promise from Jesus that his Father would provide all 3 things if needed if they applied that teaching in their lives) If they were really interested in serving Jesus and helping those in need, along with the temporary fix given they would make 100% sure that permanent fix is taught to each one in need along with the temp fix. So why is it not being taught? They live in darkness is why and do not know Jesus as they claim.

There is only one single Divinity and it is existence. It exists everywhere and there is no place it does not exist and therefor Divinity is within all of us and in everything. There is no place for satan because Divinity is all there is. There is no satan.
Prayers are not the end, it is the means. It is the means to live in peace with ourselves, in harmony with all that exists in the world, to live in kindness and love, and to know the divinity that is within us and in everything. It is to live with no wants. That is the only teaching we need. And that is prayer.
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