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To me there are actually two different issues here.
One is the shameful abuse of children by priests, other clergy, and yes, in my profession some teachers.
The other issue, however, is how the organization involved -- whether it be a church body or a school or school system -- handles the transgression.
The former is on the individual. But the latter is on all the people who participate in that organization who need to clean house and realize that yes, they too have a responsibility...and that responsibility is not to protect the organization...and yet that's exactly what some church bodies and school and school systems have done. It's all the more serious on the religious level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
What do you ever see happen to the people above all these abusive teachers...or to the system that hired people like them?
In the recent case I linked...the government officials (the same government that employees the teacher) gave her 2 months time, while it was recommended she get 40 years.
And the claim, "It's all the more serious on the religious level.", is demonstrative of rank bias.
By law, children must go to school....they don't have to go to any church. So they are forced, by law, to be prey for the abusive government workers.
The organization that writes the paycheck for the abusers...forces the children to be in their lair.
The government is known to shield wrongdoing employees from responsibility for their bad deeds....bad Law Enforcement, Politicians, Teachers, etc...all protected, while the victims suffer.
How many known to continually hang with Epstein faced any penalty...or were even reasonably investigated?
And this is happening right now.
But you, et al, constantly point to "Religion"...even bring up bad deeds from centuries ago. Or note metaphorical stories from ancient writings (such as Lot & his daughters) ...to blame "God" and his Faithful for abuse. People you claim you don't even believe existed.
You've had entire threads on that.
That tells a lot about the bias & hate some have toward the title subject of the forum.
And the claim, "It's all the more serious on the religious level.", is demonstrative of rank bias.
By law, children must go to school....they don't have to go to any church. So they are forced, by law, to be prey for the abusive government workers.
......
You've had entire threads on that.
That tells a lot about the bias & hate some have toward the title subject of the forum.
And there are teachers sitting in jails right now due to inappropriate activities with children. I am aware of school systems and communities that do not tolerate such behavior, and have no problem with legal recourse against teachers or staff who break laws against children. I can give you specific cases, or you can look them up yourself.
I also noticed that the latest sex scandal de jour is the Mormons. It seems that the MORMONS , like the Baptists , Amish, and the Catholics, are the ones tolerating, hiding and covering for abusers.
It is so hypocritical for you to think that public crimes, which are swiftly investigated and in most cases punished, are not somehow as bad or worse than religious crimes. To me, religious crimes are worse because they break two laws, one the legal laws of the sate and country, which we all are obligated to follow, and the religious ones, in which people of a religion agree to follow by their faith and position. SO religious sex abuser are in a way,, doubly bad because they are breaking not only public laws, but religious ones as well.
School workers who prey on children (outside of a religious school) will be caught and punished. However, according to data and facts, the religious abusers can hide within their religious system and never be presented to a court of law.
They can thus continue their abuse as long as they can get away with it, thanks to religions.
That is an opinion and a subjective perspective. What is at stake is the safety and protection of the victim of abuse, of any age. Children are particularly vulnerable. The article cites data that the percentage of abuse is about the same in religious institutions and all other kinds, including Boy Scouts. Trauma has no religion. All adults involved with the care of children are equally responsible for their actions. It is an error of judgement to think adults in religious institutions are any less capable of sexual or any other kind of abuse. Ought is not IS.
How we deal with abuse is always evolving and institutions and corporations need clear guidelines in dealing with abuse of any kind - how to report, the legal ramifications etc., and providing counseling.
It is not that adults in religious institutions are any less capable of sexual or any other kind of abuse, it is the fact that many religions claim to be the origin and arbitrators of what is moral.
That is not bias, that is the important difference.
A person who is supposed to be the guardian of morality -- a leader in a church organization -- has the greatest responsibility to act as a moral person.
And there are teachers sitting in jails right now due to inappropriate activities with children. I am aware of school systems and communities that do not tolerate such behavior, and have no problem with legal recourse against teachers or staff who break laws against children. I can give you specific cases, or you can look them up yourself.
I also noticed that the latest sex scandal de jour is the Mormons. It seems that the MORMONS , like the Baptists , Amish, and the Catholics, are the ones tolerating, hiding and covering for abusers.
It is so hypocritical for you to think that public crimes, which are swiftly investigated and in most cases punished, are not somehow as bad or worse than religious crimes. To me, religious crimes are worse because they break two laws, one the legal laws of the sate and country, which we all are obligated to follow, and the religious ones, in which people of a religion agree to follow by their faith and position. SO religious sex abuser are in a way,, doubly bad because they are breaking not only public laws, but religious ones as well.
School workers who prey on children (outside of a religious school) will be caught and punished. However, according to data and facts, the religious abusers can hide within their religious system and never be presented to a court of law.
They can thus continue their abuse as long as they can get away with it, thanks to religions.
And there are teachers sitting in jails right now due to inappropriate activities with children. I am aware of school systems and communities that do not tolerate such behavior, and have no problem with legal recourse against teachers or staff who break laws against children. I can give you specific cases, or you can look them up yourself.
I also noticed that the latest sex scandal de jour is the Mormons. It seems that the MORMONS , like the Baptists , Amish, and the Catholics, are the ones tolerating, hiding and covering for abusers.
It is so hypocritical for you to think that public crimes, which are swiftly investigated and in most cases punished, are not somehow as bad or worse than religious crimes. To me, religious crimes are worse because they break two laws, one the legal laws of the sate and country, which we all are obligated to follow, and the religious ones, in which people of a religion agree to follow by their faith and position. SO religious sex abuser are in a way,, doubly bad because they are breaking not only public laws, but religious ones as well.
School workers who prey on children (outside of a religious school) will be caught and punished. However, according to data and facts, the religious abusers can hide within their religious system and never be presented to a court of law.
They can thus continue their abuse as long as they can get away with it, thanks to religions.
That to me is unacceptable.
Don't worry...those "Religious Laws" (that you all claim you don't believe in) will provide for unimaginable punishment for what they did. Right?
You claim that abusers within a Theological organization are reported to the police, but are then "hidden"?
Wouldn't that be on the government officials doing that, regardless of what the "Religious System" tried to do?
It is upon The Government organizations to bring them to justice, or shield them. The Religious organizations have no authority to do that. If the Government Law Enforcement knows of these offenses...why are they not busting the perpetrators?
If you know about them to note it...they certainly must. So...what's up with that?
You claim, "public crimes...are swiftly investigated and in most cases punished". So...how do you account for all those that were known to associate with Epstein (flight logs, pictures, witness/victim testimony, etc) for years, decades even...that have never even been investigated and charged (including the highest level government and corporate officials), let alone punished?
Again...the rank bias is on full display here.
It is not that adults in religious institutions are any less capable of sexual or any other kind of abuse, it is the fact that many religions claim to be the origin and arbitrators of what is moral.
That is not bias, that is the important difference.
Then it is not the abuse and the victims' trauma that you are concerned with, it is that religions claim to be the origin and arbitrators of what is moral to their adherents that seems to bother you. If they made no such claim then there is no issue?
A person who is supposed to be the guardian of morality -- a leader in a church organization -- has the greatest responsibility to act as a moral person.
Clearly you don't understand that principle.
Unlike scout masters who abuse the young people in their charge? Unlike doctors who sexually violate the women athletes they have responsibility to? Unlike teachers? Unlike the predators in other religions, other fields? Unlike men who abuse their own children?
A person who is supposed to be the guardian of morality -- a leader in a church organization -- has the greatest responsibility to act as a moral person.
Clearly you don't understand that principle.
According to many here...that is all "delusion", "fairytales", "a false argument", etc, etc, etc.
So...what is it they are not following, if it is all "BS" and "deception", that you all claim should not be believed?
On the other hand...many of the others mentioned (Scout Leaders, Coaches, Doctors, Teachers, Parents, etc), all are supposed to act with moral integrity, and/or impart moral concepts. They even take oaths, and sign contracts that have "Morals Clauses" in them.
Why would anyone point to the Organization that claims everyone is a filthy, flawed sinner (from the get-go...they claim God/Prophets are moral, not themselves), with no chance to alone redeem themselves...to be held to some unique standard?
How about you hold them to the standard they claim they are at: Flawed Sinners whose finest works are "nothing but filthy rags", relative to a true righteous metric?
I don't see any of the others saying that about themselves...in fact, they feel they are virtuous enough to be passing judgment.
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