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Happiness arises from one’s own conviction, not by convincing others. The reason I am here is not to argue my point, but to seek those who are like minded and to share in their experience, their path, their discoveries, their practice. there is no place in my mind for atheists, atheism, or about convincing them of anything. i don’t know why they persist on following these discussions and wanting the rest of us to “KNOW” them. there is no there to know. it is a NO thing, a dead end.
You're not here to argue your point? Yet you argue here every day.
So far I only see complete absence of logic in Athiesm, and when atheists speak it is worse. They live in la la land where they can see and hear stuff people don't say and also they can also get into their heads and KNOW what others think. No cure for this self inflicted malady.
So you keep asserting, yet you never even attempt to refute the logic (science, mathematics, or history). Maybe because you can not hear the arguments for the tin cans you constantly bash.
Belief in a Divinity is personal. It is based on faith, not logic, and it is meaningful only to the self. This faith is separate from religion, and is the only thing that is common to all religions. The rest are details. None of this needs to concern the Godless, the Faithless, the Atheist.
Which is fine if this spiritual journey is harmless. But the faith methodology allows people to attach any dangerous idea to their spiritual journey, and sometimes that effects everyone, including atheists.
And when that faith ignores what we know, others should be made aware of that failure.
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Originally Posted by cb2008
If someone is trying to sell his religion, he is free to do that in America where he has a right to practice it and to the expression of it. If Atheists don't like it they can move to a country that prohibits that freedom and see if they like that any better.
Must we explain this again? Most of us do not have a problem with freedom of religion, as that effects us as well. It is the fundamentalists who are making us do your policing for you. And if you have a problem with our problem (and you do), then you are implicitly supporting religious bigotry and terrorism by wanting us to be quiet about religious bigotry and terrorism.
So you keep asserting, yet you never even attempt to refute the logic (science, mathematics, or history). Maybe because you can not hear the arguments for the tin cans you constantly bash.
You have nothing that refutes Perception, Beliefs, and Faith.
That isn't the wheelhouse of Science/Math...and History validates it, it doesn't refute it.
Once you get hip to that...you will come to greater understanding.
Your reasoning, if that is what it is, is flawed.
I have a conviction about Divinity. I am happy with that conviction, it gives me joy, peace, happiness.
Two truths. No effort at all.
End of story.
Belief and doubt can exist, two sides of a coin. With conviction doubt ceases to exist.
Knowledge and Ignorance can exist. Ignorance ceases to exist when knowledge is acquired
Non-belief has no existence, it is a NON thing. Only nothing can come of it. A dead end. That is the bad and ugly of it.
for some, they can convince themselves very quickly.
I always go back the statement
"How can we tell who is who?"
who actually is showing understanding and who thinks their understanding is all we need.
The first person I doubt is myself CB. Most atheist understand self awareness first.
I can tell with atheist by how they speak to atheism. Because I am one I guess. Do they have shun facts, dehumanize people, or deploy special pleading to maintain a belief.
You have nothing that refutes Perception, Beliefs, and Faith.
That isn't the wheelhouse of Science/Math...and History validates it, it doesn't refute it.
Once you get hip to that...you will come to greater understanding.
yes he does, he uses special pleading. that's all one needs to show they have point.
special plead trounces any perception, any belief, and any faith when its carefully written.
In a way its is kind of sad we have no respect for each other.
they refuse to respect the notion that we are just here to sort through some beliefs. See what one match what we see better. And we even asked for their help.
We refuse to respect that is about just religion and their deity only. We do not respect just telling people they are wrong for years and years over thousands of posts without offering an alternative. Or list of alternatives.
how can that gap be closed? We are more than willing to talk.
Don't talk about it seems to be the best they gotz. I wonder why?
for some, they can convince themselves very quickly.
I always go back the statement
"How can we tell who is who?"
who actually is showing understanding and who thinks their understanding is all we need.
The first person I doubt is myself CB. Most atheist understand self awareness first.
I can tell with atheist by how they speak to atheism. Because I am one I guess. Do they have shun facts, dehumanize people, or deploy special pleading to maintain a belief.
Can you tell me where, what I said, is illogical?
Quote:
I also think that people that feel just because you are happy with a round wheel doesn't make it reliable even though it made you happy and content in life.
Its not about me convincing you your belief is wrong. It about looking at the process that lead you to it.
AA,
I agree about the process.
My point, I think, is that I feel no need to convince anyone about why I believe what I believe, or convince them why they should too. It is true for me. But if the question is from someone I trust, who is in the same wavelength as me, I am happy to share it. I expect this forum, R&S, to be that kind of place. I realize I am mistaken in my expectation, it is what it is. It is in fact a battleground. But still there are a few conversations that take place that it makes it worthwhile.
My point, I think, is that I feel no need to convince anyone about why I believe what I believe, or convince them why they should too. It is true for me. But if the question is from someone I trust, who is in the same wavelength as me, I am happy to share it. I expect this forum, R&S, to be that kind of place. I realize I am mistaken in my expectation, it is what it is. It is in fact a battleground. But still there are a few conversations that take place that it makes it worthwhile.
yes, unfornatatly it is a battle ground. And I apologize for my role in it. But the simple fact is sometimes we need to stand up to bullies. And things get messy. In the middle of the fight it hard to tell who is who.
That's why I always ask "How can we tell"?
What beliefs match what we see better.
so in the end, remember the word sect. Many of the frequent atheist posters are very religion looking. They are using the same flawed logic that theist do. The same special pleading. And like some theist, they are unwilling to deviate off of that path.
they use the same words, they fly the same flags, they read the same books. So how can we tell who is who before the killing starts?
yes, unfornatatly it is a battle ground. And I apologize for my role in it. But the simple fact is sometimes we need to stand up to bullies. And things get messy. In the middle of the fight it hard to tell who is who.
That's why I always ask "How can we tell"?
What beliefs match what we see better.
so in the end, remember the word sect. Many of the frequent atheist posters are very religion looking. They are using the same flawed logic that theist do. The same special pleading. And like some theist, they are unwilling to deviate off of that path.
they use the same words, they fly the same flags, they read the same books. So how can we tell who is who before the killing starts?
I have no doubt Atheism is just another religion, with a diversity of visions, and as fundy as as any other religious fundyism. Not only that, it is Christian.
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