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You’re a perfect example of why many avoid and distrust religion. You toe the party line regardless of evidence to the contrary. Catholicism (and other religions) would get more respect if they admitted their fallibility (and their sins) instead of just pointing it out in anyone who doesn’t fall for what they’re selling hook, line and sinker.
The entire Catholic religion is premised on the belief that every human is fallible and sinful and in need of salvation and redemption. So how can you accuse Catholicism of not admitting their fallibility and sins?
It depends on what you mean by "perfect". They had attained perfection at the time of their death. That is not the same thing as saying that they had never done any wrong.
Attained……. according to fallible men who had a vested interest in promoting the Church.
Attained……. according to fallible men who had a vested interest in promoting the Church.
No; according to the testimony of those who knew them best. There is a rigorous investigative process into these things, complete with a devil's advocate and all.
Many people put forward for Sainthood have been rejected.
Consider that only about 7,000 people in the history of Christianity have been canonized as Saints. That's around 3 people per year, in the entire world.
Saying "get over yourselves" does not apply as we don't claim any kind of inherent greatness.
But Christ's rule cannot be said to be contingent on public acknowledgement.
Why not Mike? How is that different from Muslims insisting on Muhammad rule? Or of the rule of the God of any other religion? Or why you would think that Christ's rule should apply to Israel or upon any other Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu atheists or pagan?
Or why Christ's rule should be ran by Baptist, Anglicans, Lutherans or Mormons?
The entire Catholic religion is premised on the belief that every human is fallible and sinful and in need of salvation and redemption. So how can you accuse Catholicism of not admitting their fallibility and sins?
How about DECADES of known sexual abuse of children by priests they ignored? Admitting it when you get caught isn’t the same thing as FIXING it the FIRST time it happens. The Church knew priests were sexually abusing children and all the Church did was move them to other parishes where they continued to abuse other kids.
It depends on what you mean by "perfect". They had attained perfection at the time of their death. That is not the same thing as saying that they had never done any wrong.
Lots of people "enjoy themselves" at a young age and after they've had their fill, they work on their guilt into their later years. The guilt about the indulging during their earlier years. If they have any. Not sure anyone is saved or perfect in the end. Just the way life plays out for most humans one way or another. From the early years into the later years. No matter who we're talking about as a rule.
No; according to the testimony of those who knew them best. There is a rigorous investigative process into these things, complete with a devil's advocate and all.
Many people put forward for Sainthood have been rejected.
Consider that only about 7,000 people in the history of Christianity have been canonized as Saints. That's around 3 people per year, in the entire world.
And probably few really deserved it. Good PR can overcome a multitude of sins.
The entire Catholic religion is premised on the belief that every human is fallible and sinful and in need of salvation and redemption. So how can you accuse Catholicism of not admitting their fallibility and sins?
You keep repeating such premise as if they apply universally to all people, and the point you keep missing is that only Catholics accept or assume such premise. Your beliefs of course, but all of us know there are many such conflicting beliefs and no real good way to distinguish which is better or worse, right or wrong, true or not.
No real good way when the bias inherent with religious followers prevents objective consideration along these lines.
Every human is fallible? Excuse me but duh.
Every human is sinful. No. Sin is not a word in everyone's vocabulary.
Every human is in need of salvation? No.
Every human is in need of redemption. Also no.
Just what you have chosen to believe is all, and when you or your church make such proclamations as if they apply to everyone, there are those who are apt to suggest you "get over yourself."
Why not Mike? How is that different from Muslims insisting on Muhammad rule? Or of the rule of the God of any other religion? Or why you would think that Christ's rule should apply to Israel or upon any other Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu atheists or pagan?
The obvious difference between Christianity and any other religion is that you can visit the grave of any religious figure, including Muhammad.
You can also visit the Holy Sepulchre where Christ was buried, but it's noticeably empty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
Or why Christ's rule should be ran by Baptist, Anglicans, Lutherans or Mormons?
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