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The fact is we can't prove it either way. And I couldn't care less.
As a believer in God I've experienced some atheists as being so focused on the matter that it becomes like a religion for them, and in a negative way. I wish more athetists would focus on what many of them actually are: moral ethicists. That is positive.
I'm going to be excoriated for this, but in my experience believers in God focus more on positivity, whereas in my experience atheists point and laugh and make extremely unkind and sarcastic remarks about believers in God no matter what religion is involved.
I'd be willing to bet that if you have actually experienced that, you have never experienced it in real life
Who are all these people out there mocking believers?
In my entire life I have never personally witnessed an atheist mocking a believer, ever IRL. Not once, ever.
And I have a lot of atheists around me. .
The truth is, atheists just go about their daily lives, same as you.
I'm here to put paid to a lot of these myths about atheists.
Internet forums tend to attract extremes of people. That's where you will find atheists deciding religion in exactly the same way you will find people of religion deriding atheists.
On this forum it seems it is the SOLE purpose of some posters to deride atheism. I rarely see them type about anything else.
It is not that we are focused on atheism, it is that the religious are focused on their beliefs, especially the fundamentalists.
The problem is those religious people who focus on the positive while pretending the negative does not exist. While atheists may 'make extremely unkind and sarcastic remarks' (a fine example of hyperbole), at least we are not killing people because of our atheism. Google Elizabeth Struhs for just one example that happened this week.
Cue Pavlov's Labrador in 3, 2, 1 ...
Are you referring to me as a Pavlov dog? That's rather presumptuous, and offensive.
I am not a fundamentalist. Far from it. I don't like them any more than you do. Not all believers are fundamentalists.
I don't pretend that the negativity doesn't exist. I don't like it any more than you do. I can't change them. I can only change myself.
I prefer to focus on the positive.
Atheists have various things they focus on like being a Trekkie or a Master of the Universe or a member of Justice League, etc. To me, it's just another religion. I'm sure they don't see it that way, but many people do elevate those things to a religion in their personal life.
I'd be willing to bet that if you have actually experienced that, you have never experienced it in real life
Who are all these people out there mocking believers? In my entire life I have never personally witnessed an atheist mocking a believer, ever IRL. Not once, ever.
And I have a lot of atheists around me.
The truth is, atheists just go about their daily lives, same as you.
I'm here to put paid to a lot of these myths about atheists.
Internet forums tend to attract extremes of people. That's where you will find atheists deciding religion in exactly the same way you will find people of religion deriding atheists.
On this forum it seems it is the SOLE purpose of some posters to deride atheism. I rarely see them type about anything else.
I have someone in my life who mocks believers almost every single day. Just because you've never experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
I have someone in my life who mocks believers almost every single day. Just because you've never experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
So based on one person your are going to paint all atheists the same?
Why do you associate with someone every single day that mocks your belief?
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying I have never experienced it happen.
I've been an atheist my whole life, my husband is an atheist, my brother is an atheist and so are a lot of our friends and family.
In decades of my experience I've never seen it happen. They're all just regular people who don't give religion a second thought.
There are all kinds of people in all walks of life. There are bad eggs everywhere. Don't paint an entire genre of people based on one bad egg.
So based on one person your are going to paint all atheists the same? Why do you associate with someone every single day that mocks your belief?
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying I have never experienced it happen.
I've been an atheist my whole life, my husband is an atheist, my brother is an atheist and so are a lot of our friends and family.
In decades of my experience I've never seen it happen. They're all just regular people who don't give religion a second thought.
There are all kinds of people in all walks of life. There are bad eggs everywhere. Don't paint an entire genre of people based on one bad egg.
You asked her a direct question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne
Who are all these people out there mocking believers?
.
And then you dismiss her experience and question her reasons why she has this person in her life. Your response is quite shocking. Her personal life is not part of the conversation.
I have a friend who got divorced because of difficulties she had with her husband directly connected to his atheism.
So how many witnessing do you need before such experiences are validated by you?
The reality is the discussions are held here, on the forum, and the behavior and dialogs take place here. It does not matter how it is in your world or out there somewhere else. What is experienced here has its own reality.
So based on one person your are going to paint all atheists the same?
Why do you associate with someone every single day that mocks your belief?
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying I have never experienced it happen.
I've been an atheist my whole life, my husband is an atheist, my brother is an atheist and so are a lot of our friends and family.
In decades of my experience I've never seen it happen. They're all just regular people who don't give religion a second thought.
There are all kinds of people in all walks of life. There are bad eggs everywhere. Don't paint an entire genre of people based on one bad egg.
The bold conforms to my experience as an atheist for some 30+ years before my encounter. God and religion played no role in my life whatsoever. That is why my experience has been such a life-changer.
Are you referring to me as a Pavlov dog? That's rather presumptuous, and offensive.
No, there is a religious user who instinctively posts dishonest and offensive posts to almost anything I (and other atheists) write. That remark was not aimed at you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner
I am not a fundamentalist. Far from it. I don't like them any more than you do. Not all believers are fundamentalists.
I never said you were, and it is rather presumptuous of you to argue that I did. But you do appear to be chastising us for trying to keep your house in order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner
I don't pretend that the negativity doesn't exist. I don't like it any more than you do. I can't change them. I can only change myself.
I prefer to focus on the positive.
You can also change others, there is not just you and the fundamentalists. Perhaps as a German, I am more aware of what happens when one ignore the negatives due to our educational focus on our recent history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner
Atheists have various things they focus on like being a Trekkie or a Master of the Universe or a member of Justice League, etc. To me, it's just another religion. I'm sure they don't see it that way, but many people do elevate those things to a religion in their personal life.
I do not understand how some atheists being Trekkies makes atheism a religion. And you must remember atheism is a response to theism, and once again you can not blame us for keeping your house in order while you focus only on the positive.
And then you dismiss her experience and question her reasons why she has this person in her life. Your response is quite shocking.
Why is that shocking, one example does not equate to 'all these people out there mocking believers'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
The reality is the discussions are held here, on the forum, and the behavior and dialogs take place here. It does not matter how it is in your world or out there somewhere else. What is experienced here has its own reality.
Indeed, and in my straw poll, the score was 5 offensive attacks started by theists, 2 by one atheist, and only 2 threads remained neutral.
We could do the experiment again, but as that atheist no longer posts, it may be even worse for the theists this time.
The fact is we can't prove it either way. And I couldn't care less.
As a believer in God I've experienced some atheists as being so focused on the matter that it becomes like a religion for them, and in a negative way. I wish more athetists would focus on what many of them actually are: moral ethicists. That is positive.
I'm going to be excoriated for this, but in my experience believers in God focus more on positivity, whereas in my experience atheists point and laugh and make extremely unkind and sarcastic remarks about believers in God no matter what religion is involved.
I think you're missing what I'll call the big picture.
I'm going to tell you, as an atheist, why I'm here. It isn't because I don't believe and I want to argue about it. It's because many christians don't want to 'stay in their own lane'. If they want to pray in their homes...no problem. If they want to pray in their churches...no problem. But when they start pushing their religion on others who are not interested...then there's a problem. When they start pushing public governmental policy onto a society that is supposed to have freedom of religion (including the freedom to not be religious)...then there's a problem.
Newton's Third Law operates in more than just the sphere of physics: for every action there's a reaction.
I'm 73. In my entire life I've never had an atheist knock on my door to proselytize atheism. But I've had my door knocked on by quite a few christians proselytizing, particularly, but certainly not limited to Jehovah Witnesses. I've never had an atheist walk up to me in a park, or at a shopping plaza, or in front of a convenience store, or just on the sidewalk andstart proselytizing about atheism. But that has certainly happened to me with christians. You want to talk about "unkind and sarcastic remarks"? What is more unkind that to walk up to someone and essentially say, 'If you don't believe in my religion, the you're going to hell'?
And then there's the constant pushing of christianity onto our government. I won't give you all the examples of what the christian right is attempting to do. I'll just give you a little local example. I once lived in a community where one of the churches got into a big controversy over not being allowed to put a creche on the lawn at the city's government center. They were being purely political, because their alternative was to put the creche on the lawn of their own church...which was 2 blocks away on the same street. But that lawn remained empty.
We are not going to accept the old "Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war" attitude any longer. Some christians act more like Putin than Jesus.
In 2008 I moved to Thailand. I took with me a DVD collection. If you know anything about DVDs they used to have regional controls. An Asian DVD would not play on an American DVD player. An American DVD would not play on an Asian DVD player. So I went to Bangkok's leading department store to buy a 'region free' DVD player. The salesman pointed me to one particular DVD player and told me it was 'region free' (there were such things). I reached into a bag I had taken with me and said, "Prove it", and handed him an American DVD. It didn't work. We went through this with a handful of the DVD players that they had, and each time I said, "Prove it". Each time the salesman failed. Finally another salesman stepped in and showed me another DVD player, and said that this one was region free. Again I said, "Prove it". And he did. And I bought the DVD player. Now what is the point of this little story? I don't buy a somewhat expensive product unless the seller can prove to me -- in some way -- that it does everything claimed. But you folks seem to think that we shouldn't be just as stringent in asking for proof when you are demanding that we change our entire belief system, our entire way of living. And here's the payoff: you claim that your god is ALL powerful. And yet, he is incapable of having a conversation with billions of us.
Beginning at age 8 I was raised in the methodist church and then converted at age 16 to the catholic church. Y'all had 28 years to convince me that christianity was the 'right' religion; you failed. I found something different -- Buddhism. But let me tell you how I talk about Buddhism. I can't prove that reincarnation is true, so I don't even try; I just say that it's what I believe and I don't ask anyone else to believe it. I can't prove 'past lives' is true, so I don't even try; I just say that it's what I believe and I don't ask anyone else to believe it. Outside of this forum, I don't even bring the topic up, but if someone asks me to share my information and feelings, I will, to an extent. Because I realize something that christians don't seem to realize. People aren't stupid. If one of my neighbors wants to find a Buddhist temple here in the west valley of Phoenix, all they have to do is a one minute internet search. Bingo. If a person here in the west valley of Phoenix wants to find a christian church, all they have to do is that one minute internet search, or look at the ads in our local weekly newspaper, or just look for the electronic billboards that most christian churches in our areas now have. There are over 20 christian churches in our retirement community. We can find one if we want one. We don't have to be pushed. Stop pushing. Stop pushing. Stop pushing. And until you stop, you will continue to learn that for every action there is a reaction.
I'd be willing to bet that if you have actually experienced that, you have never experienced it in real life
Who are all these people out there mocking believers?
In my entire life I have never personally witnessed an atheist mocking a believer, ever IRL. Not once, ever.
And I have a lot of atheists around me. .
The truth is, atheists just go about their daily lives, same as you.
I'm here to put paid to a lot of these myths about atheists.
Internet forums tend to attract extremes of people. That's where you will find atheists deciding religion in exactly the same way you will find people of religion deriding atheists.
On this forum it seems it is the SOLE purpose of some posters to deride atheism. I rarely see them type about anything else.
We keep hearing christians complain about the "mocking". Sometimes it is mocking. Sometimes it is just disagreeing.
When it is mocking, I would suggest that they try what I was taught by Mrs. Wilson in kindergarten. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. But I would change that a bit and (for them) make it: Sticks and stones may bread my bones, but words will never hurt me, especially when I believe that the most powerful being in the universe has my back. But maybe their faith is not as strong as they think it is.
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But you do appear to be chastising us for trying to keep your house in order.
