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Old 08-07-2022, 06:16 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
15,446 posts, read 13,876,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
I remember reading about this years ago. Many ministers have no training or skills to do anything else. Their college education was at a seminary and they have not done any other kind of work.

They often really need some "career transition" help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
So?...it doesn't matter.
That's what they do...like the great Baptist Minister,The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King.
Of course it matters. What a ridiculous thing to say. What I said is true, and some of those people really do need help to change to another line of work besides being a minister. Staying a minister when they non longer belief in the religion they are in can be a very dangerous thing for a person's mental health. Perhaps not for all who lose belief, but for some it is very traumatic and they need help. Since MLK was a devout believer until the day he died, that comment was entirely off topic as a response to my post.
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Old 08-07-2022, 06:23 AM
 
12,315 posts, read 4,658,633 times
Reputation: 7052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
Yeah but getting a PhD in Divinity, then to suddenly not believe in it?
Therein lies the problem.
It can happen with other advanced degrees as well, maybe not PhD which is rather grueling. Still happens, i live with a PhD in Aeronautics who decided what he really wanted to do was market jet engines, not research. No need for a PhD for that. I am not sure you need to believe in order to teach. What if you did Race Studies and suddenly lose faith that it is true? Belief is not permanent. People swing both ways as is evidenced right here in these forums. And doubt is human. You can still teach what you know.
People with CPA decide they dont want to be accountants. It is not rare.
A very popular and successful news anchor, Liz Walters, quit and got her PhD at Harvard and is now a minister. She gave up a lucrative career. That was not a foolish decision.
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Old 08-07-2022, 06:57 AM
 
10,667 posts, read 5,399,975 times
Reputation: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Of course it matters. What a ridiculous thing to say. What I said is true, and some of those people really do need help to change to another line of work besides being a minister. Staying a minister when they non longer belief in the religion they are in can be a very dangerous thing for a person's mental health. Perhaps not for all who lose belief, but for some it is very traumatic and they need help. Since MLK was a devout believer until the day he died, that comment was entirely off topic as a response to my post.
What is ridiculous is to think that someone that has been formally trained at being a "Minister" possesses "no training or skills" to tell of anything else but Theological Concepts.
If you have been formally trained to "Minister" to others...you could "Minister" about anything.
Especially Social/Political work, like MLK did.
The idea that being formally trained to teach about Theological Concepts would leave one with no training or skills to teach anything else is just a insult of a Seminary degree, compared to others.
They could be a Guidance Counselor, Social Worker, etc...with minimal additional easy-to-obtain coursework.
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Old 08-07-2022, 10:13 AM
 
25,358 posts, read 7,019,041 times
Reputation: 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Of course it matters. What a ridiculous thing to say. What I said is true, and some of those people really do need help to change to another line of work besides being a minister. Staying a minister when they non longer belief in the religion they are in can be a very dangerous thing for a person's mental health. Perhaps not for all who lose belief, but for some it is very traumatic and they need help. Since MLK was a devout believer until the day he died, that comment was entirely off topic as a response to my post.
And to mix the average Joe Blow who wants to become a minister with someone like MLK, as if "that's what they all do," is yet another head-scratcher to add to the long list of so many...
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Old 08-07-2022, 10:20 AM
 
25,358 posts, read 7,019,041 times
Reputation: 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
It can happen with other advanced degrees as well, maybe not PhD which is rather grueling. Still happens, i live with a PhD in Aeronautics who decided what he really wanted to do was market jet engines, not research. No need for a PhD for that. I am not sure you need to believe in order to teach. What if you did Race Studies and suddenly lose faith that it is true? Belief is not permanent. People swing both ways as is evidenced right here in these forums. And doubt is human. You can still teach what you know.
People with CPA decide they dont want to be accountants. It is not rare.
A very popular and successful news anchor, Liz Walters, quit and got her PhD at Harvard and is now a minister. She gave up a lucrative career. That was not a foolish decision.
Great book about this sort of thing that I read while going through some choppy career change waters years ago...

"What Should I Do with My Life?" By Po Bronson
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Old 08-07-2022, 10:27 AM
 
10,667 posts, read 5,399,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
And to mix the average Joe Blow who wants to become a minister with someone like MLK, as if "that's what they all do," is yet another head-scratcher to add to the long list of so many...
Most all "Ministers" minister. That's what they do.
And...like MLK, (as an example of how far one could go with it) don't have to just Minister about Theological Concepts/Religion. They could use what they learned to impart info about many other ideas.
That you would find that a "head-scratcher" tells me something about you...but nothing I hadn't already discerned.
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Old 08-07-2022, 10:30 AM
 
12,315 posts, read 4,658,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
Most all "Ministers" minister. That's what they do.
And...like MLK, (as an example of how far one could go with it) don't have to just Minister about Theological Concepts/Religion. They could use what they learned to impart info about many other ideas.
That you would find that a "head-scratcher" tells me something about you...but nothing I hadn't already discerned.
I recommend a good dandruff shampoo but I dont head-scratch as often as LearnMe does so cannot recommend a brand.
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Old 08-07-2022, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
17,007 posts, read 11,374,423 times
Reputation: 8470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
An English friend of mine considered becoming a vicar in the Church of England, but did not like the idea of studying for 4 years. He said the course was not always theological, there was a large focus on social work due to the nature of the job. Do the ministers in the US only focus on theology?
It depends on the denomination, but I was quite familiar with the curriculum for pastoral training in our fundamentalist sect, since I attended their pastor mill for a year. There was no social work type of training. There were a handful of classes in counseling, but not grounded in psychology or social science, but strictly, as you say, theological ... every personal problem had a Biblical solution. And in fact social work and head doctors were looked on with deep suspicion. The bulk of the curriculum was studying theology (Lewis Sperry Chafer's Systematic Theology, specifically), dogma generally and our dispensational dogma in particular, and deep dives into each book of the Bible.

At the opposite, liberal end of the spectrum I would expect the curricula at places like Harvard Divinity School to be more like what you're describing. But here in the US with the dominance of non-denominational / fundamentalist / independent churches, the training is often on the thin side (the full degree program for our pastors was 3 years rather than 4, and while some went on to further training, the institution was non-accredited, so nothing was transferrable to a postgrad environment, you would have to then spend 4 years getting an undergrad degree first. Obviously, hardly anyone did this).

Tellingly, we were not just unaccredited, but proud of it, because this means we did not have to teach science, especially evolution. The only institutions that accepted transfer credits from us were like-minded institutions: Bob Jones University, Moody Bible Institute, Prairie Bible Institute, and at least partially IIRC, Dallas Theological Seminary.

Apart from this, many small churches have lay pastors with little or no formal training at all.
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Old 08-08-2022, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Germany
14,315 posts, read 3,441,320 times
Reputation: 1612
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
It depends on the denomination, but I was quite familiar with the curriculum for pastoral training in our fundamentalist sect, since I attended their pastor mill for a year. There was no social work type of training. There were a handful of classes in counseling, but not grounded in psychology or social science, but strictly, as you say, theological ... every personal problem had a Biblical solution. And in fact social work and head doctors were looked on with deep suspicion. The bulk of the curriculum was studying theology (Lewis Sperry Chafer's Systematic Theology, specifically), dogma generally and our dispensational dogma in particular, and deep dives into each book of the Bible.

At the opposite, liberal end of the spectrum I would expect the curricula at places like Harvard Divinity School to be more like what you're describing. But here in the US with the dominance of non-denominational / fundamentalist / independent churches, the training is often on the thin side (the full degree program for our pastors was 3 years rather than 4, and while some went on to further training, the institution was non-accredited, so nothing was transferrable to a postgrad environment, you would have to then spend 4 years getting an undergrad degree first. Obviously, hardly anyone did this).

Tellingly, we were not just unaccredited, but proud of it, because this means we did not have to teach science, especially evolution. The only institutions that accepted transfer credits from us were like-minded institutions: Bob Jones University, Moody Bible Institute, Prairie Bible Institute, and at least partially IIRC, Dallas Theological Seminary.

Apart from this, many small churches have lay pastors with little or no formal training at all.
Thank you.

I had heard of the Bob Jones University, but I did not realize there were so many independent church institutes in the US.
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Old 08-08-2022, 09:24 AM
 
25,358 posts, read 7,019,041 times
Reputation: 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
Most all "Ministers" minister. That's what they do.
And...like MLK, (as an example of how far one could go with it) don't have to just Minister about Theological Concepts/Religion. They could use what they learned to impart info about many other ideas.
That you would find that a "head-scratcher" tells me something about you...but nothing I hadn't already discerned.
Ministers minister? No kidding...

Never mind. I should have known better.
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