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Ironically it was a fact, and it was your post that was the opinion.
Read Paul's letters, where every rational method is slammed as foolishness (μωρίας), only Christian revelation and interpretation of scripture counted.
It is not just Paul, either. Jesus got in on the act too. "Unless you become like (naive) little children, you will not enter the kingdom of god". It is very slick to bring children into it because they are cute, trusting, and pull at our natural desire to protect and nurture them, and sometimes we wish we were back in the sheltered, morally simple childhood that we hopefully recall from our own experience. But to have Jesus encouraging us to be morally immature or incapable or helpless, and to just trust god to reveal truth to us by fiat ... it is not really any different than Paul telling us that "mere human reasoning is foolishness to god" and that it is a badge of honor to be accused of being a fool so long as you are doing it in the service of god. A nearly incalculable lot of foolishness has been thusly rationalized.
It is not just Paul, either. Jesus got in on the act too. "Unless you become like (naive) little children, you will not enter the kingdom of god". It is very slick to bring children into it because they are cute, trusting, and pull at our natural desire to protect and nurture them, and sometimes we wish we were back in the sheltered, morally simple childhood that we hopefully recall from our own experience. But to have Jesus encouraging us to be morally immature or incapable or helpless, and to just trust god to reveal truth to us by fiat ... it is not really any different than Paul telling us that "mere human reasoning is foolishness to god" and that it is a badge of honor to be accused of being a fool so long as you are doing it in the service of god. A nearly incalculable lot of foolishness has been thusly rationalized.
It is human nature to rationalize whatever we end up believing along these lines and/or to justify our opinions. Be they religious or political or you name it...
No one believes what they have come to believe is foolishness, however. No one feels they are rationalizing foolishness. That's sort of the nature of rationalization. To "fit the square pegs into the round holes" in such a way that they actually do fit even when others really don't think so.
You might consider writing a book and calling it "How to Rationalize Foolishness." Or maybe someone should start a thread with that title. Might prove interesting. Especially if anyone explains or admits they are doing any such thing.
I'm going to give you 3 examples of what I'm talking about.
First, my grandmother on my father's side of the family. You couldn't be much more catholic. Mass every Sunday without fail (and btw, not Saturday evening...that didn't count). Mass every holy day of obligation, without fail. Frequent confession, by a person who was a practically a saint. Sometimes go to Mass on a weekday just because she was free. And then one day the church went from Mass in Latin to Mass in English, and she had a fit. I said, "Grandma, you don't understand Latin. Now that it's in English you'll be able to understand what the priest is saying". "It doesn't matter what he's saying. It's supposed to be in Latin". Really? It doesn't matter what the priest is saying? Is that an intellectual approach to catholicism?
Second, my grandmother on my mother's side of the family. A methodist. She'd drag me to church almost every Sunday. We'd sit there from 11 - 12:10, and then be home by 12:30. She'd cook Sunday dinner and we'd sit down to eat at about 1:15...just about an hour after we left church. Sometimes (admittedly just to pick) I'd ask, "So grandma, what did Reverend Durham talk about today in his sermon?" "Oh, I don't know". "Whattya mean? You sat there and listened to his sermon. What did he say?" "I don't know. Somethin' about bein' good". Is that an intellectual approach to methodism?
And here's a third example. A friend of mine who is VERY catholic. Not much different than my paternal grandmother. And one day (again, just to pick), I said, "So you go to mass several times a week. You go to confession often. You seem to do everything you're told to. So you have said the creed thousands of times. In your own words, can you tell me what the creed means?" And he started reciting it. I said, "No, tell me in your own words what the creed means". "Whattaya mean?" "Instead of reciting it by rote memory, just put the creed in your own words". "I dunno".
These kind of responses by faithful members of a couple of religions are not what I would an 'intellectual understanding' of their chosen religion. And that doesn't even take into account those millions of christians who rarely go to church.
"A friend and two old grannies in my family" instead of "religionists", the situation here. But you take these three people, demean them on a forum and feel like rest of 6 Billion are just as the same?
These three same people are also probably law abiding, and tax paying peaceful citizens who may have worked hard to make an honest living and raised perhaps good kids INCLUDING one of your parents ... and you classify them as "lacking in intellectual efforts" ?
"A friend and two old grannies in my family" instead of "religionists", the situation here. But you take these three people, demean them on a forum and feel like rest of 6 Billion are just as the same?
These three same people are also probably law abiding, and tax paying peaceful citizens who may have worked hard to make an honest living and raised perhaps good kids INCLUDING one of your parents ... and you classify them as "lacking in intellectual efforts" ?
This is a bit much and a little too rich...
Lots of people can be seen as "lacking in intellectual efforts" while at the same time being very good people. You are "mixing apples with oranges" here in what seems just an apparent want to dismiss how people can come to believe what they do without the sort of effort considered appropriate by most people with half a brain.
A little more balanced perspective would prevent any reasonable person from extrapolating these three examples to suggest the "rest of the 6 billion are just as the same." This sort of comment sure doesn't demonstrate much difference however. Please.
Ironically it was a fact, and it was your post that was the opinion.
Read Paul's letters, where every rational method is slammed as foolishness (μωρίας), only Christian revelation and interpretation of scripture counted.
Remember that you are communicating with a poster who will most often (by far) turn to the 'magical aspects' of religion, rather than the principles of a religion, in almost every debate.
"A friend and two old grannies in my family" instead of "religionists", the situation here. But you take these three people, demean them on a forum and feel like rest of 6 Billion are just as the same?
These three same people are also probably law abiding, and tax paying peaceful citizens who may have worked hard to make an honest living and raised perhaps good kids INCLUDING one of your parents ... and you classify them as "lacking in intellectual efforts" ?
What is wrong in making an observation even if not a flattering one? Is there any intellectual rigor or standards in preferring mass in a language you don't understand or not listening to a service in a language you do understand? It is just remarking on what is observable, not generalizing it to "this is a horrible person for whom I have no affection or respect". And the point is not that grandma was an idiot whom everyone should make fun of. The point is that religion is not always engaged in with mindfulness and thought. It is sometimes just a comforting habit -- rituals pursued without much knowledge of what they symbolize or are supposed to keep us in mind of. And that serves no one well.
Why, oh why are we arguing about why these observations shouldn't be made or making galloping assumptions about some bad intent in raising them, rather than discussing what they MEAN? Could it be that they hit too close to home? Maybe, IDK.
"A friend and two old grannies in my family" instead of "religionists", the situation here. But you take these three people, demean them on a forum and feel like rest of 6 Billion are just as the same?
These three same people are also probably law abiding, and tax paying peaceful citizens who may have worked hard to make an honest living and raised perhaps good kids INCLUDING one of your parents ... and you classify them as "lacking in intellectual efforts" ?
One definition of 'religionist' is "a person adhering to a religion". That makes two old grannies and a friend religionists. It would even make me a religionist since I am a Buddhist. And they were certainly not alone in their inability to discuss in an intelligent manner the religion they are adhering to.
The fact that they were -- as far as I know -- law abiding...has nothing to do with their lack of ability to discuss religion in an intelligent manner.
The fact that they paid taxes has nothing to do with their lack of ability to discuss religion in an intelligent manner.
The fact that they were peaceful citizens has nothing to do with their lack of ability to discuss religion in an intelligent manner.
The fact that they worked hard to make an honest living has nothing to do with their lack of ability to discuss religion in an intelligent manner.
The fact that they had good kids has nothing to do with their lack of ability to discuss religion in an intelligent manner.
And yes, they demonstrated a lack of ability to discuss religion in an intellectual manner. Sort of like you in the above post.
I hope they are not going to moderate this forum into oblivion by chasing all the active posters away for having strong views.
I don't know the answer to your question, but strong views CAN still be handled within the rules of the forum.
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