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Just to clarify my position...I only object to when they are praying for me, if they know I am not a believer.
Right now my next door neighbor is, literally, dying of cancer. She is very christian. A mostly very good christian, btw. I would not consider going up to her and saying, "I will pray to Buddha that your next reincarnation will be a good one with a fulfilling next life" (not that it's appropriate to pray to Buddha anyway). I have been thinking of what to say the last time I see her (they are moving back with family), and I have settled on something along the lines of, "It's been a pleasure knowing you and sharing our friendship, and I am hopeful that the next few months are as good as they can possibly be for you".
That's my issue with praying, well, it's not really an issue if they respect your wishes and recognize you as a person, not Rob Zombie.
I'm sorry about your neighbor, I think what you have prepared to say is from the heart.
I'd ask the atheist why he/she needs to hide behind a label, or use it as a platform. Same goes for anyone else with a fetish for labels and identifiers.
I certainly have no label, other than maybe 'human'. That's basic enough.
There was an overlap from the mid-1980s to 2017, although as that time went on I became more and more Buddhist and less and less christian in my thinking. For a while I tried to meld the two (as suggested by Thich Nhat Hanh), but I think that is a fool's errand despite some overlapping in principles.
You might say I stumbled upon Buddhism as the simple result of taking a trip to Thailand (for the first time in 1985).
Ok, that's interesting to me because I've never traveled like that. I had a similar experience though when I went to the top of a mountain, alone with my thoughts, total peace and quiet. One with nature. I came down from there with a whole new perspective and new thoughts and ideas.
I'd ask the atheist why he/she needs to hide behind a label, or use it as a platform.
I certainly have no label, other than 'human' or 'resident of the Earth'.
Well then call us non-believers. Atheist describes the position, it's only a label because some people have to do that for some reason. No platform or agenda, but I can only speak for myself. There are some staunch atheists who might have an agenda, but the majority of us, like I'm doing here, are just trying to dispel all the negative things that are said about non-belief.
I'd rather ask a Buddhist, or a Muslim, or a Hindi, or anyone else ready to sense the spiritual, than those fixated on shutting that off and tuning it out. Even then, it wouldn't be for any answer, but for a potentially broader perspective and scope to consider.
Hindu, you can ask a Hindu. Hindi is a language
I am not sure any Hindu could give you any better perspective than what you already have .
I'd ask the atheist why he/she needs to hide behind a label, or use it as a platform. Same goes for anyone else with a fetish for labels and identifiers.
I certainly have no label, other than maybe 'human'. That's basic enough.
How is someone hiding when they are stating what their position is?
And I think you answered your own question, we use labels because we need them to communicate things about us. This young human German married male atheist must ask why you have a problem with atheism as a label, but not others?
How is someone hiding when they are stating what their position is?
And I think you answered your own question, we use labels because we need them to communicate things about us. This young human German married male atheist must ask why you have a problem with atheism as a label, but not others?
I agree. Labels are a natural things that humans do to classify things as part of a sense of human organization. And it's not as if christians don't classify themselves...and fight (sometimes literally) over those classifications they use.
Mightyqueen801;63891958]I'm a northern girl (New Jersey, now even farther north), and I'm not a PhD either, but my daughter is. Hehehehe, it's been since May, but I am still taking every opportunity to say "My daughter is a DOCTOR!" (of Education).
[/quote]LOL, I'd be bragging about her too! That's a fantastic accomplishment.
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But back to the actual topic, I too was permanently damaged by religion as a child, and that's a very real thing. Different church, but same results. I am of Dutch descent, so I grew up in the Reformed Church, which is very hell, death, and sin centered. Jesus is always watching to see what you did wrong. God knows all your thoughts. When I was six, God killed my cousin who was my age (leukemia) and I believed it was because I didn't pray the right way for her to get better because I was told that if I prayed with all my heart, God would answer our prayers. Sometimes, though, I'd be giggling and goofing off with my younger sister when we were supposed to be doing our bedtime prayers, and I guess those times I wasn't praying with my whole heart, so God didn't answer, and Kathy died. I realized that if I didn't watch out, God might kill me, too.
It's awful as a child to have to deal with death as it is, much less have to carry the burden of hell and sin around with them their whole lives. It's torture for a child or adult.
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This sounds ridiculous, but that is what got entrenched in my head, and there was nothing to counterbalance this belief. I was on hyperalert against death all the time. I figured out how to get God from killing me, though. If I counted to certain numbers in a given situation, or did a certain prayer inside my head, or said certain words, or waited until things felt "right" or saw the correct sign before I acted, I could prevent God from killing me.
Hahaha trust me it's doesn't sound ridiculous, it sounds very familiar. I was heavy into signs and dreams. I thought this one dream I had meant that Jesus was going to come back real soon. I was terrified of dying because what if I die and I don't have time to repent? I thought I was going to hell for sure.
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Of course, outside of church, they call this Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, but I didn't know that until I was in my 40s. It was just the secret life and constant busyness that was inside my head all the time. The tendency like had been born in me, but the religion absolutely fed it.
The mind is a complicated thing, and we all process things differently. I have OCD too, so that doubles the anxiety and confusion.
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Anyway, short version, twice I went back into church communities for a few years, both times an Episcopal Church, which is not death and hell centered, doesn't think it's the only right religion on the planet, and as we know is not considered "really Christian" by a lot of other churches because of their stance on LGBTQ rights and other socially progressive positions. I liked the modern thinking along with the traditional rituals, because of course rituals work for someone with a brain like mine, but the main reason for joining a church, especially the last time, was for social reasons. Also, there was a part of me that still asked, "What the heck do all these people see in this mean Jesus character that I never could figure out?" By going to the church, I was able to dispel that and see Jesus as a teacher and healer, as a human rather than a powerful being who was out to get me, and God has become more of a "that which connects us" than a person. My most spiritual sense these days comes when I am out and about in nature. I get about an hour a day to do that, and to me, that's my spiritual life now.
I was always told Episcopalians were not real Christians also, even though it was one of the many churches I was taken to. You should have heard the bashing afterwards, though. It was said that Episcopalians were just an offshoot of Catholicism. And Catholics were definitely not considered Christians. Hmmm a church full of people that aren't really Christians? What the heck are they doing then? I quite enjoyed the Episcopal church, even though I was young and didn't understand what they were doing. Maybe it soothed my brain too, since it was structured.
I mentioned in another response about nature and how it clears the cobwebs and it helped me grapple with my religious beliefs, or lack thereof. It was transformative.
Last edited by mensaguy; 08-01-2022 at 11:44 AM..
Reason: Fixed quote
I agree. Labels are a natural things that humans do to classify things as part of a sense of human organization. And it's not as if christians don't classify themselves...and fight (sometimes literally) over those classifications they use.
I don't have a problem with calling something what it really is. Atheism is not a label, it's a description of a person who just doesn't believe. But yeah, we need "labels" for Christianity because there are so many sects.
Thank goodness that AA is not around to pounce on your 'permanent damage'. Because I mentioned disliking church when my grandmother forced me to go, he used that as a weapon against me for years.
Wow didn't know that. I kind of miss his wacky, nonsensical posts. But what a pest.
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