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It was assumed that we were talking about a deity. Of course, there are other things to believe in.
Perhaps instead of assuming, you should say what you mean. Why would you ask a question that you already know the answer to anyway? By the way my "box" is more than full it's overflowing with family and friends, many of them religious who know I'm an atheist but do not judge me anymore than I judge them. Everyone is entitled to their belief or non belief.
if a person can't conceive of one, then it makes sense that they can't conceive of the other
One what?
Supposedly God is love, God is compassion, God is mercy, God is just. I can conceive of those things, I can even conceive unconditional. I may not be able to concieve of the infinit nature attributed to God but do I need to? Not being able to concieve of such things isn't why I am an atheist.
Edit: being able to concieve of those things probably has something to do with me being an atheist. Killing people at Armageddon does square with infinity anything.
Last edited by L8Gr8Apost8; 09-04-2022 at 03:42 PM..
It is a good question. The responses given about "Civil War" "dishes" "exercise routines" "the stock market" and "hockey" are not relevant or pertinent to paths of religion and spirituality, which is the section of the forum we are in, and which is the topic of the discussion. The question about an empty box is asked within that framework. It is not asking about hobbies, vacations, and leisure time pursuits.
Well okay, Mother Superior: I was Methodist for part of my life; the topic still interests me. I was catholic for a big part of my life; the topic still interests me. I am Buddhist...and perhaps you are unaware that that is a belief system that is usually classed as a religion. I like to visit some churches to admire the architecture. In the past 10 years I have occasionally visited a catholic or methodist church to keep up with the changes. These are topics that interest me, as well as the topic of woo-woo.
It was assumed that we were talking about a deity. Of course, there are other things to believe in.
Good. It still remain true that some theists clain ws be!ieve in nothing, that are lives are emoty and meaninglesz and other nonsense so it is unwisd to assume that you meant diety.
Now to answer your question about why we discuss atheism I rhink there are three main reasons
1) to dispell misunderstandings and misconceptions about our lack of belief
2) to address what and when we see over reach by theists into our lives and societies
3) to provide arguements and reasons for our lack of belief in a diety
Because of reason 1 I did not answer your question until the matter of a misubderstanding had been addressed. Some theists claim we do nit believe in a God because we reject his authority and wish to do as we please. Or that we are stubborn and think of ourselves as greater than him. Also to address the concepts tjst we lack morals or ability ro have common human emotions like emphaty or live. Or to address the false claim that we must hate Jesus which is funny as us Jewish atheists never get told that we hate Gid if we were Jewish.
For over reach by religion it is more a personal and local thing. For example as a Canadian I have never exoerienced a meeting starting with a prayer however if I remember correctly some athists have at the start of say a HOA meeting which by means of bringibg in one relugion it is treating those outside of if as outsiders. When I was growibg up the teachers had to staet the day with a prayer and the afternoon wifh reading from the Bible . As a non believing Jew I felt as an outsider havng tio sit through a reading from the NT. Never from any religiion other than the Bible. Why dont church services start off with a math or biology lesson?
As to the third , how will a theist understand why we do not believe if we do not explain.
As to your empty cardboard box, asa joke I will say we carry it arround to hold other peoples misconceotions once they are freed of them.
It was assumed that we were talking about a deity. Of course, there are other things to believe in.
Based on my past experience as a theist, and the views that I and my believing companions held in common, the idea that one cannot have a meaningful and coherent life without religious faith just represents a failure of imagination. If you look at everything through the lens that nothing makes sense without god, then you will assume that someone who is without god cannot make sense of their life.
But the irony is that everyone derives morality, ethics, meaning, purpose and direction in the same way, god-believer or not: we decide what matters to us, and we seek it out. What matters to me is that I am an exemplary husband and [step]father and neighbor and worker, that I provide for my family and see to the needs of my clients with integrity and fairness and kindness. I direct myself to that and it gives me more than enough to look forward to each and every day of my life.
I suspect that you have similar values but you just execute on those priorities within a particular framework provided by your religious and/or spiritual beliefs. I also have a framework: do that which provides the most benefit and the least harm to myself and to others, while being kind, genuine and real as I know to be, and constantly working to improve that. Believe it or not, it is possible to do this with a different religion than yours, including with no religion, because these are just human values and we are all human beings who need to interact in non-toxic ways with each other. The common denominator is our humanity, not our particular (non)beliefs.
There are both good and bad atheist actors and good and bad spiritual/religious/theist actors in society. From this I conclude that god-belief, while potentially a sufficient ingredient to living honorably, is not a necessary one. I'm 30 years into my journey as a non-believer in god and I have not taken leave of my convictions or been unable to control my base impulses or have things to very much look forward to, even in the context of a world going pretty much off the rails. I can't see any difference at all, TBH.
As a bonus I have weathered the inevitable life crises that come up now and again better rather than worse. For example when my son died 6 years ago almost to the day, I was not burdened with the "why me, why him, what did I / he / we do wrong, why didn't god protect him" questions. All useless and superfluous questions. It is just something that happened that I don't like because it was at the end of various causal chains that I had no personal input to. It didn't have to be more complicated than that. My pain was not amplified by religious idealism or trying to reconcile lived experience with the promises of god or the question of my worthiness of god's approval, protection or blessing. God, and life, did not owe me anything and therefore could not possibly confuse, betray or disappoint me. Stuff happens sometimes. Death is part of life. You integrate it and move on. Far simpler that way. And I have direct comparisons. I've buried a wife and a mother who died out of turn and have had various other unsavory things happen, both as a believer and as an unbeliever, and I have to say, I really like this cleaner, simpler, clearer way of understanding life. Not as some drama on a celestial stage in which god and I are acting out some sort of redemption narrative. It's not even about me. It is just things happening. I can't tell you how freeing that is. For me, anyway.
Believers often think atheists want to be free of god's law. In my case at least it had zero to do with wanting to be some sort of libertine and almost entirely to do with not wanting the burden of all that cognitive dissonance that brought me no real comfort but did deliver a lot of confusion. Another way to put it is that my religious beliefs did not accurately explain or predict outcomes in my lived experience, and I was tired of trying to reconcile the two. Now my life proceeds about how I would expect it to if I am, rather than a child of god, just a being dwelling in an impersonal universe that is neither aware of nor cares about me. I have a family for that. They care, and they show it. It suffices.
What does "oneness" look like? I think it's like a lot of words that gets tossed around. Different people have different concepts of it.
Quite possibly. I can share the concept of it within Advaita or Nondualism, a school of Hindu philosophy. It denotes Brhman, the Cosmos, which is existence. It exists, transcends time and space, day and night, and there is no place that it does not exist. Brhman is all there is. It has no parts, just One. It is pure existence, intelligence, love. , At the micro level of the world it is called Atma, Self, Consciousness, awareness, that which enlightens. Since Brhman is everywhere, it is within every single being, in everything that has a name and form. We live in ignorance of this true nature of our’s. When we reach that realization, that we are not our body and mind but THAT pure existence, intelligence, love, we become One. There is only One, no Other. That is Advaita, non-dualism, Oneness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8
S… Oneness to me would look like having the insight that we are all equal in the regard that we are all sentient beings. That is where our "worth" is. External things like virtue, looks, intelligence, education, money, talent...are all just add-ons that enhance the experience but with no "worth" attached to them.
I like that. We are all IN Brhman, Oneness, no divisions, pure Existence, Goodness, Love. That is the Truth. Everything else is transient, including the body and mind that is our ego, and with no “worth” attached. The “worth” is the light within, that we all possess, including our dog, birds and bees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8
I posted about those fire fighters and police officers that gave their lives during 9/11. Giving their life was probably the easy part of their choice. Knowing that their families would suffer was probably the hard part. They had the insight that the "other" had families as well that would suffer the loss. They surely did not see those people trapped as "the other". That's oneness to me.
I do not think there are any Chinese communists on CD....You are tilting at windmills. Shall we begin discussing all the atrocities done by the religious throughout history? I thought not.
What is your question?
QUESTION FOR ATHEISTS:
Do you realize that your common slam on the Religious for "atrocities done", is relatively bogus?
If you view the numbers for Religious Based vs Not Religious Based "atrocities done"...not only would one reasonably conclude that Religion is not much of a catalyst for atrocities...but, if anything (considering the abundance of Religion) it is a deterrent to that.
QUESTION FOR ATHEISTS:
Do you realize that your common slam on the Religious for "atrocities done", is relatively bogus?
If you view the numbers for Religious Based vs Not Religious Based "atrocities done"...not only would one reasonably conclude that Religion is not much of a catalyst for atrocities...but, if anything (considering the abundance of Religion) it is a deterrent to that.
So why point a crime done by an auttnhoritive dictatorship upon atheists? Oh right , you are all about spreading hate.
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