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Oh boy! How ridiculous can it get? If you and yours can't tell the difference between a circular argument and not believing in something due to lack of evidence, I don't know how to help you.
It's been interesting to me how attune psychics are to the whole 'god thing', and yet I know of some who steer away from 'god thinking' and more toward something unexplained. To be honest, I've sometimes thought of the 'god thinking' attitude to be worthy of "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" thinking.
I've used the example of that scene from the Wizard of Oz many times.
Watching a sunrise can be a spiritual experience even as we know it is the planet that is revolving.
We experience the color blue in the sky, even as we know there is no such color. Still a blue sky is reality.
I know un unbeliever who went through an AA program where you are (in theory at least) free to conceive of a higher power as you see fit -- but you must define one. This person's definition was simply "other people". Really it is not so much a higher power (a label that sort of begs for a theistic definition) so much as something greater than yourself. And that, for atheists, is usually the community or society in which we are embedded, or perhaps the whole world. And sure enough, being other-focused rather than self-focused is a great counterweight to the forces of addiction and depression. Even being focused on personal or professional goals is better than ruminating constantly about your own thoughts.
I'd argue that focusing on something real is apt to be better at keeping you out of bad thought habits. For one thing you don't have the cognitive dissonance of explaining the difference between actual experience and what is "supposed" to happen. You can actual observe other people / society / humanity and refine your understanding of it. I don't know how one does that with a god, as you have no ability to observe, but are left with your imagination and assumptions.
I'm not sure it's so much about focusing on something real as it is to strive toward a positive outlook or perspective about what is real, because people can get down right negative about reality too. Best to keep it real with a positive outlook in any case. If this is perhaps what you're getting at. Though it seems lots of people find benefit from believing in the unreal as well.
I feel I am a part of something bigger than myself. Again, of course...
I am not aware of a "higher power" if a higher power is any kind of deity, creator or intelligent design. So I generally refer to all that is bigger than myself as nature, the cosmos, all that exists. I don't call any of that a higher power.
This is the best this atheist can do to answer your questions for now.
We use metaphors for a reason. They express the inexpressible. “All that exists” is a metaphor. Quibbling over metaphors is a meaningless exercise when we know what is being expressed.
What kind of belief you think L8 is talking about?
Admittedly, I'm not sure. That's the reason I put a qualifier "If" in my question.
But i took it that he is talking some kind of religions/spiritual belief.
If I'm wrong and he was talking about something different, then I can be corrected.
But if I'm right, then my question is perfectly sensible.
My intellectual understanding is that L8 is a female...
nope.
because yes, there is personal experience.
and no, it is not "all just intellectual understanding."
you may lack that personal experience, however it exists in abundance for many people. i don't use the word "supernatural." there is nothing more natural than recognizing the divinity within each of us, and that we are more than just a physical body.
I'd suggest this notion of yours about "nothing more natural than recognizing the divinity within each of us" is a good example of intellectual misunderstanding. You may be describing your personal experience and/or opinion, but there is no real justification to claim such a notion is a fact or the truth. Certainly not for everyone.
PS: I don't know about all this having to do with dancing, but I do know some people think they can dance but in reality, they really can't...
I would add that the personal experience lends meaning to the rational thought, the intellectual understanding. Without it, it is just thought, not meaning.
Too general...
Personal experience can sometimes enhance rational thought and/or sometimes undermine it.
Oh boy! How ridiculous can it get? If you and yours can't tell the difference between a circular argument and not believing in something due to lack of evidence, I don't know how to help you.
A lack is not so easy to dismiss. A lack of something is internal, something we desire, value, but do not have. Per Buddhism and Hinduism and other religious paths and philosophies, this very feeling of lack is what leads to suffering.
“We merely lack Belief in Gods“ presupposes that there is a god to be believed, and belief in god is desirable, and that we lack that belief. If this is not what atheists mean, then they need to find other ways of expressing exactly what it is they are saying.
nope.
because yes, there is personal experience.
and no, it is not "all just intellectual understanding."
you may lack that personal experience, however it exists in abundance for many people. i don't use the word "supernatural." there is nothing more natural than recognizing the divinity within each of us, and that we are more than just a physical body.
The question is not whether or not people have individual 'spiritual' experiences. The question is really whether or not all those personal 'experiences' can be trusted.
Is every psychic always right? Do all psychics agree on topics? Are all psychics really psychics?
Is every religionist who has visions always right? Do all religionists who have visions agree on topics? Are all religionists who have visions sane?
When religionists have dreams, do all those dreams reflect reality? Did my crazy Aunt Millie's religious proclamations have meaning, or was she just being crazy?
When a Muslim tells me that the christian religion is blasphemous...does that mean it is?
But you want to attribute all those things to divinity, or as I would call it woo-woo. If it's woo-woo, you love it.
It's very easy to say that all religions are paths to the same god. Until you have one religion literally fighting against -- and killing people -- another religion. Sometimes to the point of nearly destroying cultures. But I guess that kind of religious hate is simply 'divinity'.
Last edited by phetaroi; 09-11-2022 at 08:18 AM..
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