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Yours is a familiar refrain, Northsouth. The ONLY way Christians break free of Christianity's pernicious hold on them is to try to find answers to the questions about Christianity apart from seeking answers from apologists. They're NEVER going to get the straight dope from an apologist because that is an apologist's job: to keep doubtful Christians in the dark--to stop them from asking questions about Christianity by offering them smooth cunning answers to their questions that never add up when an inquiring Christian tries to make sense of what they've been told
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Wasn't expecting to see this thread again. The answers that I got, even as a teenager, were rehearsed and a lot of times they weren't anywhere near prepared to answer anything that didn't follow the script. Um, er, uh...."you just have to trust in the Lord's plan and have faith" or "you can't listen to the outside world, Jesus is the way, the truth and the life...the only way to the Father" or some standard seminary response.
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The Internet is a doubtful Christian's best friend. The Internet can be a non-interested impartial fountain of information about how Christianity evolved from a nothing backwater religion that was built up on the duplicitous double-dealing flimflam of corrupt church leaders.
Yes it is. LOL that's quite a flipping flimflam tongue twister. It makes me sad to think how these lies have infiltrated and held captive the minds of individuals who are just seeking answers and comfort. It makes me mad to think that these monstrous, destructive religions have pretty much stolen away some folks' ability to love and accept themselves, without the need for some stupid sky fairy's approval not to mention the unforgiving rules and requirements to reach some imaginary place where we're all gonna live in peace. It boggles my mind to try and understand the hold this "thing" has on most of humanity.
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Atheists don't have to lie. All they have to do is tell the truth. Any Christian who wants the truth will listen to an educated atheist give them the truth. The truth about Christianity is really ugly and most Christians are content to just bury their heads in the sand and not acknowledge the truth because it would rock their world right back to the day they were born.
No we don't. It's the truth that scares, angers and keeps people closeted about the fact that they are either questioning it all or simply going along with the program because of fear. Don't be blasphemous and question or make fun of the "word" of god......or allah or whoever....and who are all these writers of these holy books? MEN. Someone who claims to be 'divinely inspired or directed by god' to write this god's words down can only be described as having a superiority complex in thinking they are were "chosen" by god to write down his directions and screwed up stories and claim that it's holy. What do you suppose someone would say to a person making these claims today? Yep, off you go for a mental evaluation.
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Someone who claims to be 'divinely inspired or directed by god' to write this god's words down can only be described as having a superiority complex in thinking they are were "chosen" by god to write down his directions and screwed up stories and claim that it's holy. What do you suppose someone would say to a person making these claims today? Yep, off you go for a mental evaluation.
It's somehow different if it's safely in the distant past -- the more distant, the better. Or a claim made by Jesus or an apostle or a NT author ... someone we already decided was holy and good. But you're right, in the here and now, it's evidence of being bonkers. Funny how that works!
It's somehow different if it's safely in the distant past -- the more distant, the better. Or a claim made by Jesus or an apostle or a NT author ... someone we already decided was holy and good. But you're right, in the here and now, it's evidence of being bonkers. Funny how that works!
It was bonkers back then too.
Even past Adam and Eve and Noah and the Tower....
God's "chosen people" being the spawn of one guy in Ur is pretty damned bonkers. And the excuse that Abram was the only monotheist in the world who happened to pick the correct God is beyond amusing.
And off we go from there with the Judeo Christian thing.
Just putting it out there for those who are afraid to or don't want to venture into the A&A, but still have questions.
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No question, just this: It took me 53 years to resolve my question regarding God's existence. Finally, I just gave it back to God with the admonition (as if! eyeroll, here) that IF God wanted my belief, He was going to have to give me a sign that left no more questions in my mind. That night, I went to bed. I had an indescribable dream, during which a sense of peace and understanding washed over me and I fell back into a deep sleep. The next morning I woke feeling not just refreshed, but renewed.
I follow no religion, I attend no church, but I now know irrefutably that existence as we know it exists in God, of God, and there is no dogma to encompass it. God is a vast consciousness in which we all exist, and it cares not whether we believe in it, just as oxygen doesn't care if we breathe it.
It's somehow different if it's safely in the distant past -- the more distant, the better. Or a claim made by Jesus or an apostle or a NT author ... someone we already decided was holy and good. But you're right, in the here and now, it's evidence of being bonkers. Funny how that works!
It's considered being delusional and is obviously a mental health issue, we understand it more now than 2000 years ago fortunately. At least it is recognized now as a real thing and it's worth treating. Yeah it is funny how that works.
No question, just this: It took me 53 years to resolve my question regarding God's existence. Finally, I just gave it back to God with the admonition (as if! eyeroll, here) that IF God wanted my belief, He was going to have to give me a sign that left no more questions in my mind. That night, I went to bed. I had an indescribable dream, during which a sense of peace and understanding washed over me and I fell back into a deep sleep. The next morning I woke feeling not just refreshed, but renewed.
I follow no religion, I attend no church, but I now know irrefutably that existence as we know it exists in God, of God, and there is no dogma to encompass it. God is a vast consciousness in which we all exist, and it cares not whether we believe in it, just as oxygen doesn't care if we breathe it.
I hear you, I spent almost as many years searching for and chasing something that doesn't even exist. I am in no way discounting your experience it just seems that the dream you had may have manifested from your strong desire for a definitive answer to the ever-looming question of "is it real"? Or you've been talking to Mystic.
It's somehow different if it's safely in the distant past -- the more distant, the better. Or a claim made by Jesus or an apostle or a NT author ... someone we already decided was holy and good. But you're right, in the here and now, it's evidence of being bonkers. Funny how that works!
Which is why I have said that if Paul (the apostle) were around today, we would have no such writings. Instead of being blinded by a light and hearing voices, and telling everyone that "god" was talking to him, and have people believe it, we would instead give him an EEG to verify that he does in fact suffer from focal seizures, hence the bright lights and voices , and his "Messages" would stop.
We would also put him on an SSRI for his depressive mood swings and give him therapy for his self hatred and low self esteem.
People today need not be so superstitious as they were in Jesus' time. Some still are, but they need not be. Psychology and Medical science can do more than religious myths.
I hear you, I spent almost as many years searching for and chasing something that doesn't even exist. I am in no way discounting your experience it just seems that the dream you had may have manifested from your strong desire for a definitive answer to the ever-looming question of "is it real"? Or you've been talking to Mystic.
It's somehow different if it's safely in the distant past -- the more distant, the better. Or a claim made by Jesus or an apostle or a NT author ... someone we already decided was holy and good. But you're right, in the here and now, it's evidence of being bonkers. Funny how that works!
Consider too that we do not have any actual writings of any of the original 12 disciples. The written records we have, some of which bear the names of apostles, Even the epistle of Peter was not consistent with the writings of a possibly illiterate apostle (Jesus too likely being illiterate) AND IS DATED TO 81 AD which would be long after Peter's death.
As for Paul, like I said, we have a new drug now called APTIOM which is useful for focal seizures, like the ones that caused Paul to see Bright lights and hear voices followed by passing out for a while (Post ictal phase) Had this knowledge of seizure disorders and medications existed in Paul's times, then there would have been no Pauline Gospels. The rest of Paul's disorder (mood swings, low self esteem etc) could have been treated with current meds and therapy...NONE of which was known or existed in Paul's time.
This is why Atheists like myself reject Paul and his "visions" as simply hallucinations brought on by a medical pathology, not a supernatural event. BUT in Biblical times, hallucinations were not seen as neuro-psych events but as supernatural events. Today, we know that the preceding is the cause, and always has been, because lets admit it, dead people don't talk to people, although the living can often dream of the dead.
Consider too that we do not have any actual writings of any of the original 12 disciples. The written records we have, some of which bear the names of apostles, Even the epistle of Peter was not consistent with the writings of a possibly illiterate apostle (Jesus too likely being illiterate) AND IS DATED TO 81 AD which would be long after Peter's death.
As for Paul, like I said, we have a new drug now called APTIOM which is useful for focal seizures, like the ones that caused Paul to see Bright lights and hear voices followed by passing out for a while (Post ictal phase) Had this knowledge of seizure disorders and medications existed in Paul's times, then there would have been no Pauline Gospels. The rest of Paul's disorder (mood swings, low self esteem etc) could have been treated with current meds and therapy...NONE of which was known or existed in Paul's time.
This is why Atheists like myself reject Paul and his "visions" as simply hallucinations brought on by a medical pathology, not a supernatural event. BUT in Biblical times, hallucinations were not seen as neuro-psych events but as supernatural events. Today, we know that the preceding is the cause, and always has been, because lets admit it, dead people don't talk to people, although the living can often dream of the dead.
KingCat, you clearly know just enough about these things to understand the current interpretation of these "disorders." What you seem unwilling to accept is that not every such happening is necessarily a function of some "disorder." You have accepted your alternate explanation for Paul but you have no way to KNOW that it is the answer. Of course, it was NOT supernatural! There is no such thing!
But my Synthesis provides an alternate non-supernatural explanation that you apparently know just enough NOT to comprehend (or as NorthSouth would say, "You have not been talking to Mystic"!) I assure you, my encounters were NOT a function of some mental "disorder or dysfunction"!
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