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Gravity was absent, we had no knowledge of it, until Newton named it. You too have a name for that order of the the universe, the Existence, you call it Nature, capitalized. Same thing. You wait for Science to tell you what is already evident. Until Science names it it does not exist for you. You attribute this immense power to Science which apparently brings thins into existence. Sounds a lot like God.
It's impossible to say anything is impossible really. However the problem with this line of reason is the simple landing on possible or impossible, when really it's about probability...
For example, is it impossible the Earth won't revolve around the Sun another 24 hours tomorrow? No. Of course it's not impossible, but is it probable the Earth won't revolve around the Sun another 24 hours tomorrow? Is there any good reason to believe the Earth won't revolve around the Sun another 24 hours tomorrow?
Additionally, can anyone prove what will happen in the next 24 hours with absolute certainty? No again, but needless to say, there is what we can deduce, know and believe "beyond a reasonable doubt," and/or there is what is highly unlikely given the facts, reason and knowledge we have available to consider.
Will pigs come flying out my back end today? Just because I can't prove they won't doesn't mean there is any intelligent or justifiable reason to believe they will, and if not today, there is always the future possibility, but really?
I agree probability would be a better word to use. So let’s test which is more probable.
The universe is finely tuned, and if you look into how finely tuned it is the numbers are staggering.
So which is more probable, that chance is the cause of the finely tuned universe or a mind is behind it?
Humans are naturally inclined to label objects and phenomena in order to say these things are this, but not that. The trick is to get the word to stick. This means that a large group of diverse people agree to use that word because using it brings understanding. They will use it until something else can replace it.
While the scientific use of gravity was not attested until the 1620s, it has an older Latin root which has a denotation of "heavy". So earlier people had a sense of the phenomena, even metaphorically, but not specifically the scientific understanding that comes along with measurable observations.
There is a reason why English continues to not capitalize nature and a reason God is capitalized quite often. A capitalized God is one that is distinguishable from just plain gods. I think that is important to recognize because many people may want God as a separate entity. They do not view God as one that is indistinguishable from the lowercase nature. Uppercase God would provide a purpose. Lowercase nature does not.
Early people knew a lot. Some Atheists and others are either ignorant about their knowledge or just stupidly disdainful of any knowledge that is not stamped with the Science god. Earliest vedic astrologers could predict the exact time of a solar eclipse to occur although they did not know it was the shadow of the moon. The reverence with which they treated the earth and waters and mountains was also based on protecting renewable resources with care.
Nothing exists until it is named and described. But Existence itself cannot be named because naming it limits what is limitless, pins down what transcends time and space, what is unborn. It can only be described by the limited number of things we know that it is not. Add to this that different people name it in the language they speak from Arabic to Swahili etc. This is how the world itself is, half known, half unknown, with countless species and matters, named by those who lived in the region.
Insistence that if the limited knowledge of science cannot prove the limitless then it does not exist is the same as fundamental theist who insists if it is not in the Bible it does not exist. It is willful ignorance. But that is alright. Ignorance can be bliss.
Early people knew a lot. Some Atheists and others are either ignorant about their knowledge or just stupidly disdainful of any knowledge that is not stamped with the Science god. Earliest vedic astrologers could predict the exact time of a solar eclipse to occur although they did not know it was the shadow of the moon. The reverence with which they treated the earth and waters and mountains was also based on protecting renewable resources with care.
Nothing exists until it is named and described. But Existence itself cannot be named because naming it limits what is limitless, pins down what transcends time and space, what is unborn. It can only be described by the limited number of things we know that it is not. Add to this that different people name it in the language they speak from Arabic to Swahili etc. This is how the world itself is, half known, half unknown, with countless species and matters, named by those who lived in the region.
Insistence that if the limited knowledge of science cannot prove the limitless then it does not exist is the same as fundamental theist who insists if it is not in the Bible it does not exist. It is willful ignorance. But that is alright. Ignorance can be bliss.
Gravity was absent, we had no knowledge of it, until Newton named it.
Hipparchus, Straton, Archimedes are 3 that I know about who wrote about gravity 1500 years before Newton, and they were describing something people knew existed every time they dropped something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
You too have a name for that order of the the universe, the Existence, you call it Nature, capitalized. Same thing. You wait for Science to tell you what is already evident.
Atheist - Oooh, what is that thing?
Scientist - It is a tree.
Atheist - Wow, thank you scientist, I never knew trees existed until you came along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Until Science names it it does not exist for you.
Yes, we knew nothing about weather until scientists told us about it. Or night time / day time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
You attribute this immense power to Science which apparently brings thins into existence. Sounds a lot like God.
A god of the straw people (who are regularly sacrificed on this forum).
Insistence that if the limited knowledge of science cannot prove the limitless then it does not exist is the same as fundamental theist who insists if it is not in the Bible it does not exist. It is willful ignorance. But that is alright. Ignorance can be bliss.
Your straw man argument is even more of a problem a religion.
Harry it is these types of arguments that as a Christian I find ridiculous. It's like the who created God arguments.
That is exactly it. And theists do not answer it, they just repeat their mantras without considering what their argument means when applied to their god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
You know that Christians believe God is eternal so you are.not making an argument against my beliefs, you are making an argument about what you think about God, Or what you think God is in need of.
No, I am making arguments against your arguments, not your beliefs. I am following your arguments to their logical conclusion when applied to your beliefs.
Comparing Theology or Religion and Science as though they are expected to function similarly for the same purposes is a mistake atheists seem to make all the time.
We do not expect them to work the same, we are pointing out that they often do not, which leads to faulty theological conclusions. It is only when they do follow rational methodologies that they get things correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Is it just unclear thinking, on purpose, or is it because they really think science is religion?
A good question for the thread.
A false straw man dichotomy for the thread. Perhaps it is just unclear thinking from you, and not on purpose.
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