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No one is insulting and mocking theists, we are just responding to their claims.
Wrong...you deem "Beliefs" to be "claims"...then insult and mock those Beliefs, and the Theists/Religious for holding them.
Corporate Cowboy (and many others) have noted and explained this...but you are so helplessly compelled (I told you why) to persist, that you couldn't stop if you wanted to.
Try stating and telling of your own views...rather than slamming the differing views of others and them for holding those views.
Meanwhile 4+ out of 5 in this world are Theist...and it's growing. While Atheists are declining as a percentage of the population.
Those Theists have perceptive abilities that you lack...so, they know things you don't, and maybe never will.
That's most unfortunate...I will pray for you.
Because you are defending their misinformation and falsely claiming someone is twisting their own words.
No, I am pointing out Tzap IS twisting someone else's words, and only that. Nowhere have I defended what Shirina wrote, nowhere did I say Shirina was correct, I even said she may be wrong (which is why I suggested she answer for herself what she meant).
Of those I have read, and the few I have had the privilege to hear, some were atheists before they were sent to the camps. Those who were religious usually either became more religious or they stopped believing (or expressed doubts).
I will ignore the rest of your post as it is misrepresenting what Shirina said. For example, secular is not the same as being an atheist.
How is Tzap misrepresenting Shirina? Shirina has never clarified her statement which seems to say nothing other than equating secular with atheism. She claims Isreal is a secular country withe deeply entrenched atheism. It is a Jewish state from the beginning, privileging Judaism, and she has provided no data about the “deeply entrenched atheism” or what deeply entrenched means. Is that 60,70,80%? She has provided no links back up her claim.
How is Tzap misrepresenting Shirina? Shirina has never clarified her statement which seems to say nothing other than equating secular with atheism. She claims Isreal is a secular country withe deeply entrenched atheism. It is a Jewish state from the beginning, privileging Judaism, and she has provided no data about the “deeply entrenched atheism” or what deeply entrenched means. Is that 60,70,80%? She has provided no links back up her claim.
A simple Google search backs up Shirins's claim. I had to look it upmyself to see if it was true. Posting on this cheap tablet I find it difficult to add links to my posts. Type atheism in Isreal in Google and the first link I got was to a survey published in the Washington Post. If you do not trust that news outlet I am sure there is links to sources you trust.
In North America and Europe there are larg percentage of Jews who are atheists. Including myself and many of my relatives.
A simple Google search backs up Shirins's claim. I had to look it upmyself to see if it was true. Posting on this cheap tablet I find it difficult to add links to my posts. Type atheism in Isreal in Google and the first link I got was to a survey published in the Washington Post. If you do not trust that news outlet I am sure there is links to sources you trust.
In North America and Europe there are larg percentage of Jews who are atheists. Including myself and many of my relatives.
A simple Google search backs up Shirins's claim. I had to look it upmyself to see if it was true. Posting on this cheap tablet I find it difficult to add links to my posts. Type atheism in Isreal in Google and the first link I got was to a survey published in the Washington Post. If you do not trust that news outlet I am sure there is links to sources you trust.
In North America and Europe there are larg percentage of Jews who are atheists. Including myself and many of my relatives.
Israel, for instance, is one of the most secular nations on earthwhere atheism is deeply entrenched into their society - and a lot of that comes from the Holocaust. They are cultural Jews, but not religious Jews. Because the Holocaust survivors had a difficult time rectifying the presence of a God who would allow them to suffer so horribly.
Nothing to back up any of that claim.
Badlander, I am not distrusting you, i would like a link to your source so we are looking at the same thing.
I did my own googling as well. Is Israel a secualr country yields "Secular with Judaism privileged." I posted a link for Shirina. It was a state founded as homeland for the Jews. The Jewish orthodoxy is pushing for a theocracy.
I cannot find much info on percentage of atheists in Israel.
So what exactly does it mean that atheism is deeply entrenched?
Quote:
Last January, the Guttman-Avi Chai survey in Israel found that some 80 percent of Israeli Jews believe that God exists - the highest figure found since this review of Israeli-Jewish beliefs began two decades ago.
The latest survey of the "Beliefs, Observance and Values among Israeli Jews" was conducted in 2009 but the results were released only in January, after a detailed analysis had been completed. The two previous surveys were in 1999 and 1991.
The study also found that 70 percent of respondents believe the Jews are the "Chosen People," 65 percent believe the Torah and mitzvot (religious commandments ) are God-given, and 56 percent believe in life after death.
Overall, the survey found an increase in attachment to Jewish religion and tradition from 1999 to 2009, following a decrease from 1991 to 1999, which was the decade of mass immigration from the former Soviet Union. Among other things, it found that less than half of Israeli Jews think that, in a clash between Jewish law and democracy, democratic values should always prevail.
For example, her first line was "it is inaccurate to say that Holocaust survivors do not believe in God". Some did, either before they were sent to the camps, or lost their faith in the camps (while others found their faith grew stronger). But nowhere did Shirina say all Holocaust survivors do not believe in God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Shirina has never clarified her statement which seems to say nothing other than equating secular with atheism. She claims Isreal is a secular country withe deeply entrenched atheism. It is a Jewish state from the beginning, privileging Judaism, and she has provided no data about the “deeply entrenched atheism” or what deeply entrenched means. Is that 60,70,80%? She has provided no links back up her claim.
Na, und? I am not Shirina, and can not answer for her.
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