Ask an atheist...? (myths, agnostic, ghost, quote)
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Northsouth — thanks for starting such a thought-compelling thread!
I really value simplicity and the basics.
So I have a question that keeps arising regarding your post. If you drop all thoughts about “organized religions” and your relationship to that, I am truly curious how you relate to the existence of everything.
When you have those moments when the incredible complex mind-blowing nature of this vast amazing and evolving universe happened — do you ever recognize/sense an intelligence behind this creation and complex evolution or do you believe it was all just a lucky roll of the dice ?
Thanks for your answer.
Hi Mountainrose thanks for the questions! Ok, yes, that's a good question. I'm sure Mordant gave you a good answer, I haven't read his reply yet. Didn't want to parrot anything he said.
I freely admit I do not have all the answers, but in my mind I look at it like this....the beauty and nature surrounding us should not be taken for granted, I enjoy it very much. I feel like the Universe has always been here, no beginning, no end. That concept is hard for us to grasp because everything in our lives seems to have a beginning and an end. It's just a possibility, not a fact. Sometimes you have to clarify things for others here at the board, not saying you need to hear that.
It seems more logical to most that there may be a creator, but none of us really know. I choose to look at it from more of an atheist perspective because I see no evidence for a creator. When you think about it, everything in our imaginations are creations of our own. We take those thoughts and desires and 'create' something, whether it's art, music, architecture, wedding cakes, etc. Everything in OUR world IS created, except for the obvious things like plants or animals. But we sure make a lot of things from plants and animals.
I did have an extreme complex, mind-blowing experience in nature and meditation, but it was more of a realization that maybe I can't explain the beauty, but I sure am going to enjoy it no matter how it got here. I wrote my thoughts down in an open =air chapel on the side of a mountain, I wish I had kept what I had written. It's all kind of a blur now as to when exactly I had that a-ha moment, because I did. It took a long time to release myself from all the things that I was taught, incorrectly and forcefully.
As far as organized religion, I never enjoyed that. I was forced to go to church and I hated every minute of it. Except when I attended a black church, that was fun. I don't really accept the big bang theory, although it is one explanation but not fact. So, as an agnostic atheist I feel like the Universe has always been here. I know that is hard to wrap one's head around that, but if you let go of beginnings and ends it makes sense.
I know what the bible says, but I really don't believe that it is a 'holy' book. It's simplistic and barbaric, disparages women, advocates rape (think of Lot and his daughters) violence, slavery.....I mean even if I did believe it wouldn't be in the bible god. Universalism was a good choice for me after removing myself from fundamentalism. I wasn't a Universalist for long, but it set me on the path of discovery, which I had never had the opportunity to do before.
It's really not a choice anymore. I do not have nor have I ever had blind faith. I was confused, terrified of hell(that's where Universalism came in)and just generally unhappy and unsatisfied. I'm not those things anymore. I have nothing to equate it to except that I opened my mind and eyes and saw organized religion for what it was. Maybe not in your world, but in mine I didn't believe anything I was preaching about even when I was the most devout Fundamentalist, which was what I was back in 2006 when I joined C-D. I'm embarrassed now by my posts back then, I seemed crazy. I guess I was a little.
Atheism isn't popular, but it's not evil either. Nothing evil about NOT believing in an evil murderous god. If I had proof that could be proven scientifically I may consider it, but that's never going to happen. Why the big secret if there is a god? Why not show himself like he did in the bible? Why does there have to be threats of hell for not believing? If people want to live by an antiquated dusty 2000 year old book I have no problem with that. It's the hateful, self-righteous posters here at C-D and irl that I have a problem with. I'm sorry, you didn't ask for all the commentary but I'm a thinker and this is what I have come up with.
I didn't choose atheism per se, it's just what makes sense to me. A creator just doesn't. But I have absolutely no problem with other beliefs and religions as long as they are peaceful and non-threatening. I like discussing religion. Because of being sheltered, I know very little about the different religions. I'm here to learn and discuss/debate, no agenda or grievances, just curious.
It doesn’t seem like atheists are much different from believers. They seem to want to preach the gospel of atheism just as fervently.
Believing in God is a choice. We make the choice if it benefits us, and if it doesn’t, we don’t. I choose to “let go, and let God”, because it lifts some burdens in my life. I believe my prayers have been answered many times. I don’t know how non believers handle the burdens of life, but so be it.
bold above, indeed.
exactly.
beautiful post, observation, and insights.
thank you gentle. (great screen name also)
It doesn’t seem like atheists are much different from believers. They seem to want to preach the gospel of atheism just as fervently.
Believing in God is a choice. We make the choice if it benefits us, and if it doesn’t, we don’t. I choose to “let go, and let God”, because it lifts some burdens in my life. I believe my prayers have been answered many times. I don’t know how non believers handle the burdens of life, but so be it.
Thanks for the time you put into your answer! You have a lot of courage, humility, and a healthy inquiring mind!!
I’m sorry you experienced such trials with an evangelical family and childhood, although it appears the anger and disgust seems to have nurtured/fired up your existential curiosity and healthy inquiry in life!!
I grew up with an atheist father and an agnostic mother, so I never had any religious indoctrination, and I am comfortable using the word God and divine as it holds no baggage for me.
But my husband grew up experiencing a deep and painful fundamentalist Catholic childhood and can not “separate” the understanding of God from Catholicism. Even the word God sends shivers up his spine — lol
With my question — “is this all just a lucky roll of the dice?” I was trying to go a little deeper than just those divine moments in nature we experience and into the contemplation of the more vast intelligence and complexity in creation — from the world of protons/electrons to the quorum sensing and communication between bacteria, to the mutations of viruses, to bees able to GPS and tell a whole hive EXACTLY where a particular flower is up to 3 miles away, to the moon’s effect on the ocean and tides, to the perfect placement of our planet in this solar system with just the right atmosphere and rotation for seasons and night/day.
I have a science background, so that’s what’s brought me not to a faith or belief in God, but to a personal certitude.
I respect everyone else’s experience, but like you, I have a very inquisitive mind and love the diversity in the journeys we experience and learn/profit from these discussions — even if in our underwear — lol
Last edited by mountainrose; 08-25-2022 at 01:29 PM..
In other words I don't see how either having an experience of awe or enjoyment in nature leads inherently to a creator, and I don't see how believing that a creator dunnit adds to my enjoyment (if anything, it arguably detracts). I think for devout theists it is just a question that they have approached these things in a certain way and have an overdetermined view of how necessary and inherent that approach is to appreciating or enjoying nature in a deep way.
Mordant — thanks for your well-thought out reply. I edited it down to this part as it gave me interesting pause and I had to reflect on it a while.
As I mentioned in my post to NS, I was trying to go deeper/vaster than just the mere “awe and enjoyment of nature.”
Remember when they surmised there was an actual God-gene? I think that has been disproven now, but they do see a genetic inclination/bend toward those w spiritual tendencies.
It’s so interesting and baffling to me that one can contemplate the complexity of all this and not actually “feel??” an intelligence behind it all as I do and am comfortable calling “God” — no judgment here on my part!! — that is the diversity we have in human experience that evolves and makes life so amazing….but I wonder if our differences in perceiving and experiencing spiritual/nonspiritual actually do have a genetic twist……
Last edited by mountainrose; 08-25-2022 at 01:25 PM..
With my question — “is this all just a lucky roll of the dice?” I was trying to go a little deeper than just those divine moments in nature we experience and into the contemplation of the more vast intelligence and complexity in creation — from the world of protons/electrons to the quorum sensing and communication between bacteria, to the mutations of viruses, to bees able to GPS and tell a whole hive EXACTLY where a particular flower is up to 3 miles away, to the moon’s effect on the ocean and tides, to the perfect placement of our planet in this solar system with just the right atmosphere and rotation for seasons and night/day.
Thank you very much for posting good questions.
I hope you don't mind if I contribute my two cents to a discussion.
I don't have a scientific background, but even my basic, rudimentary knowledge on a subject tells me that physics, chemistry, biology, science in general have already answered pretty much all the questions you posted above. At very least, it answered them sufficiently enough to make any appeals to a"supernatural intelligent creator" completely unnecessary and very questionable from the stand point of reason and rationality.
So my question is, if explanatory power of scientific theories does just fine, why do we need to contemplate an "intelligent creator" that does not have any explanatory power at all and who actually, so far, can not be distinguished from nonexistent?
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