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Who, what is that "other voice?"
What do you think?
I believe that that is your conscience (together with your sub-conscience).
I believe it is incumbent on us to strive for a 'well formed conscience' ;
perhaps our childhood was not under our control, but as adults we can and should continue to shape/form/grow our conscience - it's a lifelong process.
Google 'well formed conscience' if you want a further explanation of that is.
A well formed conscience will be able to properly discern between self-thoughts, and private revelation from God.
I also believe that we (our awake conscience) can and should master our sub-conscience, to every degree that it is possible - failure to progress here leaves one closer to an animalistic state, rather than what we are truly capable of.
In this thread there are a lot of tricky answers to this one, all wrapped up in religious-speak.
It is suggested that the 3-letter agencies have the ability to 'play God' in our heads by transmitting voices.
From the research carried out by the Nazis during the war and the science that was captured from those Nazi scientists at the end of the war, I am absolutely positive there are current agencies and scientists who know how to place thoughts and voices into our minds. How are we to know if these are placed there or whether they are products of our own mind?
I bet some MKULTRA and MILAB experiments over the years have shown that shooters are hearing voices (which do not come from God.) and have directed them to carry out those instructions.
I bet some MKULTRA and MILAB experiments over the years have shown that shooters are hearing voices (which do not come from God.) and have directed them to carry out those instructions.
It's also well-documented that people with psychosis hear voices. It is also well-documented that people have inner narratives. Hence the old chestnut, "it's okay to talk to yourself so long as you don't also answer".
No top secret government projects needed to explain it. Though I am sure they have looked into how it might be manipulated for purpose of war or controlling the populace, I don't think we need to wonder if our inner thoughts are coming from Uncle Sam. It wouldn't be that sophisticated. There's not a control room somewhere (dis)approving of your every thought.
I am always fascinated by Jayne's theory of the bicameral mind, which suggests that prior to an epigenetic shift a few thousand years ago, people routinely experienced voices instructing them and guiding them, and mistook these for the voices of gods. When we started living in cities in closer proximity to other humans, these were submerged into our subconscious and today people who hear voices are considered "not right in the head". Indeed, people with schizophrenia hang onto sanity by reminding themselves that these voices are in their heads and can often be commanded into silence.
So I think it is a false dichotomy that voices either come from god or the forces of evil. I think it is just a function of how integrated the various compartments of our thought processes are. They are all inner voices, even when they seem to have their own volition or advocate for dysfunctional actions. I don't hear voices, but I often feel competing concerns pulling me in different directions, and have to decide which one(s) to "listen" to. This is just the human condition, not some supernatural thing.
The self-consuming nature has nothing to offer. Even when it tries to appear to be feeding others, it is only feeding itself. Many exploit that sinful nature and use it to manipulate, while only feeding egocentric outcomes. Because it has nothing to connect too beyond self.
I always hope for the righteous outcomes. While self-consuming nature is a dead end, because it doesn't accept anything beyond itself. What was the response too, turn this stone to bread...
I figure if folks start with self-observance, then how can they at the same time observe the sinless one and look to him, to navigate you through it all.
When you lay a foundation and then build upright, the plumb line must be on the mark, or else you have a crooked building. In the meeting of two points. Plumb true Covenant relativity. Not a warped general relativity and reality.
Sounds to me at least,that your referring to contemplative prayer.
Which again requires discernment.
Self observance as you refer to it, is essential in my opinion.
I tend to follow use St Ignatias and his spiritual excersises as an example, or guide.
True surrender ist requires an intimate knowledge of that which I'm laying at the foot if the Cross.
Sounds to me at least,that your referring to contemplative prayer.
Which again requires discernment.
Self observance as you refer to it, is essential in my opinion.
I tend to follow use St Ignatias and his spiritual excersises as an example, or guide.
True surrender ist requires an intimate knowledge of that which I'm laying at the foot if the Cross.
It isn't something that I would attempt to label and package in a box.
I find the book of Proverbs to be very grounding, because I can read it and say to myself, that is what those people do, until it points right at me. Which then points me to looking directly to the sinless one, to straighten me out and accept correction.
My point about self-observance in my post that you quoted, is that it isn't a place to live and to know life all around. There is a better starting point to observe, from God's first spoken.
Last edited by chief scum; 08-01-2022 at 10:15 AM..
Sure we have a voice, or maybe different voices with different motivations, that can "talk" to us within. But that doesn't mean that is what we call "God".
If you actually have spiritual familiarity in these matters, you can separate that which is human and that which is beyond. And the "beyond" shows up in other ways eternally.
This isn't child's play, and shouldn't be left to initial impressions or wandering thoughts. This is something to review deeply, over time (even decades), letting it show itself rather than us being in the driver's seat and directing where we think it ought to go. The latter approach is all too easy and common, and brings no understanding or enlightenment.
There are times when an eternal, more superior way needs to be directing the thoughts and revealing matters. The human isn't the king of the universe like many feebly attempt. Even stepping outside the Earth, and looking down, there are very little obvious signs of humanity. And more distance shows no signs of human life. The more we realize how little we know, the more we can be ready and receptive to things we'd normally never be listening or looking for.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 08-01-2022 at 09:56 AM..
The inner dialogue of a righteous seed comes from the source of origin. Without the nuisance of internal duality.
In this world when I'm around a lot of people, I feel more alone. When self-image rules everything is just a selfie mirror, my ugliness is just a mirror for someone else's beauty, and someone else's beauty is just a mirror for my ugliness. So, I figure if I call myself all together evil and ugly in this world, then everyone else can be good and beautiful, and I am not taking anything away from anyone.
The One togetherness of God in all together goodness, is a world apart from an existence with everyone walking around with hearts that contain good and evil mixed together. So much so that they even judge God. I just look to the One True God and the Life He shares to navigate me through all that, as Abraham said; God provides.
I'd like to think this thread and the pondering it might promote isn't taking anything from anyone either...
Ideally the opposite.
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